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  • #46
    Huh? Not sure I understand.

    I have an example. In Hunter Prey, when Garibaldi confronts the bad guy Max. He deals with this crook in his inimitable fashion, but never calls him by name. There is no implication that Garibaldi knows him personally, but it's obvious Max is a bad guy.

    But bakana, your dialog reminds me of the tourists sightseeing in Down Below, while reading from a brochure about the criminal element.

    Eeh, it's such a small issue, and certainly not worth any tension whatsoever. If it's alright with everyone else, let's put this one to bed.
    "The cat is not evil for killing the rat, nor is the rat evil for stealing the grain. Each acts according to its nature." Master Po - Kung Fu:TOS

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    • #47
      Actually, Bakana has it totally right.

      Garibaldi wouldn't be worth the oxygen if he didn't know who was running what in down below. There are various bad guys that Garibaldi has run into, warned, been threatened by, had informants give him info on and possibly arrested but then had witnesses or evidence disappear. Garibaldi is stated in several episodes, to know who does what, who smuggles, who kills, etc. In Dust to Dust he knows who to lean on (the Asian smuggler) to get info about Morganstern the dust runner. We never saw that character again.

      This isn't even debateable, its stated as such in several episodes each season.

      Just because Garibaldi does or doesn't refer to a criminal by name doesn't really mean anything. If he mentions the name, it doesn't mean JMS is going to make him appear multiple times. If he doesn't mention the name, then it doesn't necessarily mean anything either.

      I think you are reading way too much into this.

      I also think it is really weak to get your (incorrect) counterpoints in, to imply someone is naive (tell someone they sound like they are reading a tourist brochure) while bringing up tensions, and then prematurely attempt to end the discussion.

      Last edited by NotKosh; 10-06-2004, 09:39 AM.
      "I am not a number! I am a free man!"

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      • #48
        Sigh.........

        I guess you didn't read my last post where I said it was too small of an issue to worry about, and that it should be put to bed. I agree with Malloy, arguing is hard and I want to stop.

        Wow. I only wanted a small discussion on a small speculation, but somehow it's ended up in a place I never intended it to go. I honestly tried to emphasize the fact that it was a VERY trivial matter, just an offhand thought. I even included a ton of smileys to try to show that I didn't want to appear nasty. Maybe Malloy isn't that far off the mark. There seems to be an awful lot of squabbling over very small things, and I'm just as guilty as the next person.

        Please read my last sentence again, where I blame myself more than anyone else.

        But since this is a JMS discussion forum, shouldn't discussions of this kind be allowed? And perhaps even ENCOURAGED?

        I hereby drop the matter entirely and relenquish the last word to whomever. And I extend the hands of friendship as a gesture of good faith. (note the smiley, indicating no embitterment)
        "The cat is not evil for killing the rat, nor is the rat evil for stealing the grain. Each acts according to its nature." Master Po - Kung Fu:TOS

        Comment


        • #49
          Every once in a while things seem to get testy, maybe because we're all still waiting for the official 'Eep announcement' (aka Peep). Or maybe because of planetary allignments or sunspots or hormones or allergies or...or...

          Please, everyone, remember that personal comments are what tend to cause hard feelings so just edit them out as you write, okay?

          Jan
          "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

          Comment


          • #50
            Dr. Kirkish from MfE...she probably returned to Earth after the civil war.
            Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

            Comment


            • #51
              Hold the fraggin' phone! I made my last post before I saw your edit where you attack me personally.
              I also think it is really weak to get your (incorrect) counterpoints in, to imply someone is naive (tell someone they sound like they are reading a tourist brochure) while bringing up tensions, and then prematurely attempt to end the discussion.
              Just where the hell did you get this??? This is so far off the mark it's laughable. I never, NEVER implied that bakana was naive, nor did I say bakana sounded like he was reading from a tourist brochure. These are YOUR words, not mine. I said it REMINDED me of actual dialog from Shadow Dancing where the tourists were in Down Below reading about it from a brochure. I also included a laughter smiley indicating humor. For the record, I thought bakanas quote was a good one, quite funny. How did you construe (or should I say MISconstrue) an accusation of naivete from that? Then you say I bring up tension while "prematurely attempting to end the discussion"?!
              Eeh, it's such a small issue, and certainly not worth any tension whatsoever. If it's alright with everyone else, let's put this one to bed.
              Where, please tell me where you got the implication that I was trying to slip in the last word then quickly end the discussion so no one else could comment! Like that would work anyway! That's more than a little paranoid.

              You know, I think I'll quote YOU:
              I think you are reading way too much into this.
              So if you feel empowered by taking personal cracks at me, knock yourself out.
              "The cat is not evil for killing the rat, nor is the rat evil for stealing the grain. Each acts according to its nature." Master Po - Kung Fu:TOS

              Comment


              • #52
                Moderators note

                JAN points to her MODERATOR hat.

                Everybody!!! Read my post of 1:24 PM (my time zone, anyway <g>) and chill out . I've enjoyed this thread up to the last few posts and I'd very much prefer to not have to start editing posts or close the thread.

                Jan
                "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller
                  Dr. Kirkish from MfE...she probably returned to Earth after the civil war.
                  She's the one who told about excavating the Shadow ship on Mars, wasn't she?

                  Jan
                  "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Jan
                    She's the one who told about excavating the Shadow ship on Mars, wasn't she?

                    Jan
                    Yes.
                    Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Ben-Thayer Dunnthaedt
                      Hold the fraggin' phone! I made my last post before I saw your edit where you attack me personally.Just where the hell did you get this??? This is so far off the mark it's laughable. I never, NEVER implied that bakana was naive, nor did I say bakana sounded like he was reading from a tourist brochure. These are YOUR words, not mine. I said it REMINDED me of actual dialog from Shadow Dancing where the tourists were in Down Below reading about it from a brochure. I also included a laughter smiley indicating humor. For the record, I thought bakanas quote was a good one, quite funny. How did you construe (or should I say MISconstrue) an accusation of naivete from that? Then you say I bring up tension while "prematurely attempting to end the discussion"?!Where, please tell me where you got the implication that I was trying to slip in the last word then quickly end the discussion so no one else could comment! Like that would work anyway! That's more than a little paranoid.

                      You know, I think I'll quote YOU:So if you feel empowered by taking personal cracks at me, knock yourself out.
                      If I misread you then sorry. As for this remark:

                      But bakana, your dialog reminds me of the tourists sightseeing in Down Below, while reading from a brochure about the criminal element.

                      This clearly to me, implies a parallel to Bakanas and the tourist/brochure. You stated one "reminds you" of the other.

                      The Naive remark has its origins more in a general lack of knowledge.

                      naÀive or naÀ´ve ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-v, nõ-) also naÀif or naÀ´f (n-f, nõ)
                      adj.

                      1. Lacking worldly experience and understanding, especially:
                      1. Simple and guileless; artless: a child with a naive charm.

                      In fact, that is the definition of the word!

                      Newcomers to an area are often unaware of what is what there. They read tourist brochures to get more info.

                      Thus tourists who read brochures are naive about the area/subject.

                      Tourist brochures, while containing useful information are also often slanted so as to cover the positive of an area and not bring up/accent the negative. Thus the belief that those who wholeheartedly believe them are to a degree naive.

                      I also don't believe that my posts have been half as offensive as you make them. I have stated you are wrong/I believed such, and attempted to give supporting facts. When I was wrong about Boggs, I admitted it.

                      While you have responded to some of my remarks you have totally ignored others. You have also posted that the tone has been going all in the wrong direction, and taken strong argument as personal attacks. You have repeatedly posted, then asked for the discussion to end. If that isn't intentional last wordism, it sure looks like it. Reread your posts. You state something, state something else, then desire for the conversation to end!!!

                      You have not addressed the well known fact that Garibaldi was numerous times stated to have known the station inside and out, and most if not all of the wrong people (as it is his job to watch/catch them).

                      Jan, please read this thread from start again, and let me know if you truly believe this thread has gotten to the point where it would need to be locked. I don't see it that way whatsoever.

                      I see a discussion over Garibaldi's knowledge, JMS introduction of characters and not much more. I also see one party who has "begged to authority" in an attempt to avoid acknowledging points that counteract his previous position.

                      As for personal attacks, counterpointing someone elses words, and describing them is not a personal attack. It is an attack on some statements. That is what discussion and debate is all about. I see one party avoiding issues, under a house of cards. The house consists of prematurely declaring the tone of the thread to be going the wrong way. Also at multiple times attempting to end the discussion instead of responding to valid points. When that failed, personal attacks was brought up in an indignant fashion that was totally unwarranted. Lets also include a dollop of histrionics, as shown in the last post.

                      And it appears to have worked, since now moderation has come up.

                      At no point was a personal attack, or a direct insult hurled from this party to the other. Nor was one intended.
                      Last edited by NotKosh; 10-07-2004, 07:05 AM.
                      "I am not a number! I am a free man!"

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Jan, please read this thread from start again, and let me know if you truly believe this thread has gotten to the point where it would need to be locked. I don't see it that way whatsoever.

                        Don't need to. If I decide that the thread has gone toxic, it doesn't matter how many pleasant posts there are up to that point.

                        I sincerely suggest that the entire digression be dropped. Now. Completely. By everybody. It doesn't matter who said what, who did or didn't respond to whichever points or how anything is defined, understand?

                        Please go back to discussing other characters or leave the thread completely.

                        Jan
                        "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Whatever happened to... Laurel Takashima?
                          Such... is the respect paid to science that the most absurd opinions may become current, provided they are expressed in language, the sound of which recalls some well-known scientific phrase
                          James Clerk Maxwell (1831-79)

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                          • #58
                            Just to clarify, if there is any doubt, the image I was trying to invoke was of a long line of "Bad Guys" waiting patiently while Garibadl goes down the line introducing each one to some "Guest Star".

                            Just as Sinclair introduced the various religious leaders to Delenn...

                            And, for the record, I understood the "Tourist Brochure" remark as expanding on that image.

                            IE, I didn't (and Don't) think it was meant in a negative manner.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Bunny...didn't Cavelos want that position to originally be filled by Talia? Or someone else?
                              Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Just to put in my two cents, I thought that the tourist brochure comment was meant as humorous, and was in fact humorous. I cannot imagine how anyone could construe that as demeaning the original poster.

                                Amy

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