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  • #31
    I've always been a bit curious about what happened to some of the more visible MiniPax/Nightwatch people when Clarke fell. Some examples

    "Garibaldi's Aide" from 1st Season and beginning of 2nd
    Pierce Macabee
    Julie Musante
    Frederick Lantze

    JMS gave us some idea of what happened to Mr. Welles, but what do people think about the rest?
    "That was the law, as set down by Valen. Three castes: worker, religious, warrior."

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    • #32
      I have a question, although not exactly a whatever happened to question, but since the Nightwatch has been mentioned here this seemed as good a place as any.

      In the three episodes Messages From Earth, Point of No Return, and Severed Dreams the head Nightwatch guy is played by Vaughn Armstrong. The Lurker's Guide lists him as Security Guard #1, with no other name.

      Then in the next episode, Ceremonies of Light and Dark, the head Nightwatch guy is played by Don Stroud, and he has a name: Boggs. Garibaldi appeared to know him well.

      My question is:
      Does anyone know if JMS ever intended that these two be the same character? DS and VA are similar physically. Did JMS want the same actor in all four eps, but for some reason it didn't happen that way? I have thought about this since the first time I saw it. Since VA was never given a name, it doesn't rule out the possibility that they could be the same person. It seems odd that JMS would build up VA as the head Nightwatch guy in the first three shows, only to have a different head guy in the fourth show. But then again, I just don't know.

      And just so I don't violate the thread covenants, how about the insectisoid alien that sold anything and everything, N'Grath? What happened to him/her/whatever?
      "The cat is not evil for killing the rat, nor is the rat evil for stealing the grain. Each acts according to its nature." Master Po - Kung Fu:TOS

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      • #33
        If memory serves (and it doesn't always) N'Grath was removed because he was *too* alien...But I thought he was neat...shame they couldn't have worked out a guest appearance at Ivanova's "Smuggler's anonymous" meeting.

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        • #34
          I like N'Grath too. I didn't feel he was too alien at all; he was far less alien than the Vorlons and Shadows.

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          • #35
            Any thoughts on the question about Don Stroud/Vaughn Armstrong?
            "The cat is not evil for killing the rat, nor is the rat evil for stealing the grain. Each acts according to its nature." Master Po - Kung Fu:TOS

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            • #36
              No, JMS never wanted them to be the same for the obvious reasons, as seen in the episodes.

              All identified Nightwatch were sent back to Earth. That takes care of the security guy. The other guy who was in charge of the kidnapping was unknown/hidden Nightwatch.

              Therefore there was no way for them to be the same person.

              Just because JMS shows a character in a few eps, doesn't mean he has a problem offing him.

              By the way, Stroud also played the alien mentor/trainer for Walker Smith (Garibaldi's fighting friend) in TKO.
              "I am not a number! I am a free man!"

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              • #37
                I thought Ngrath was removed for technical diffculities with the puppet.

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                • #38
                  Just because JMS shows a character in a few eps, doesn't mean he has a problem offing him.
                  OK......although I'm not sure why you ragged me about this since I never mentioned having an issue with JMS killing off a character.

                  Once again, just a thought on a very small issue. And for the record, even though it probably doesn't apply in this instance, just because someone exits the station doesn't mean they can't get back on undetected.

                  The other guy who was in charge of the kidnapping was unknown/hidden Nightwatch.
                  Not exactly. Garibaldi and Boggs clearly knew each other.
                  Boggs: "Lookin' for me, Chief?"
                  Garibaldi: "Yeah, you and all your Nightwatch buddies"

                  He also knew the psycho. He didn't call him by name but he referred to him as a real stone killer.

                  Last edited by Ben-Thayer Dunnthaedt; 10-01-2004, 08:04 AM.
                  "The cat is not evil for killing the rat, nor is the rat evil for stealing the grain. Each acts according to its nature." Master Po - Kung Fu:TOS

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    That Garibaldi knew Boggs doesn't mean he knew Bogss was affiliated to Nightwatch, or that he knew Boggs was in the station (he might have returned as BTD suggests).


                    JMS was dissatisfied with how N'Grath came up. He mentions that in several archived posts (dissatisfied with the result while commending the work involved). Thus N'Grath was left as a background figure not to reappear.

                    "Learning Curve" mentions that N'Grath is gone, and the underworld of Downbelow is going through some turmoil because of it.
                    Maybe N'Grath was offed before the "Smugglers Anonymous" () meeting... or maybe since he only dealt with stuff within the station he wasn't needed, or maybe he couldn't handle the oxygen atmosphere without an encounter suit. Or maybe it's just that JMS really didn't want to use him/her/it anymore.
                    Such... is the respect paid to science that the most absurd opinions may become current, provided they are expressed in language, the sound of which recalls some well-known scientific phrase
                    James Clerk Maxwell (1831-79)

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                    • #40
                      Gee, I thought everyone knew that N'Grath quit B5 because he didn't feel he was getting enough screen time and went over to Buffy instead.

                      Regards,

                      Joe
                      Joseph DeMartino
                      Sigh Corps
                      Pat Tallman Division

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino
                        [B]Gee, I thought everyone knew that N'Grath quit B5 because he didn't feel he was getting enough screen time and went over to Buffy instead.
                        Yeah, but he didn't much like playing a female either, so that went south too.
                        Radhil Trebors
                        Persona Under Construction

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                        • #42
                          Funny you would mention that... I never watched Buffy, only learned of this a few hours before your posts from a reference in an archived JMS post.
                          Such... is the respect paid to science that the most absurd opinions may become current, provided they are expressed in language, the sound of which recalls some well-known scientific phrase
                          James Clerk Maxwell (1831-79)

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Ben-Thayer Dunnthaedt
                            OK......although I'm not sure why you ragged me about this since I never mentioned having an issue with JMS killing off a character.

                            Once again, just a thought on a very small issue. And for the record, even though it probably doesn't apply in this instance, just because someone exits the station doesn't mean they can't get back on undetected.

                            Not exactly. Garibaldi and Boggs clearly knew each other.
                            Boggs: "Lookin' for me, Chief?"
                            Garibaldi: "Yeah, you and all your Nightwatch buddies"

                            He also knew the psycho. He didn't call him by name but he referred to him as a real stone killer.
                            True.

                            I should have been more specific. I meant they got rid of all the ones they could get their hands on, and that took care of the security guy.
                            "I am not a number! I am a free man!"

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                            • #44
                              Yeah, I do remember that they sent the first Nightwatch guy packing with those folks that were captured in the cargo bay.

                              It's just that in general, JMS will provide the viewers an association between a guest star and one of the regulars. Sometimes it's only a sentence or two, like "we were stationed on Mars at the same time", and sometimes it's more. But this will typically give a little more depth to the relationship, both good and bad. In the case of Boggs, I don't really remember anything being mentioned to provide that sense of association between him and Garibaldi, he's just dropped in. And as I said, it's pretty clear from the dialog that they know each other, and it's kind of implied they even have history. To repeat:

                              Garibaldi: "Boggs!"
                              Boggs: "Lookin' for me, Chief?"
                              Garibaldi: "Yeah, you and all your Nightwatch buddies"

                              This dialog seems to imply familiarity between the two. So it got me wondering if JMS originally intended for the same person to be the head Nighwatch guy in all three shows. Especially since Don Stroud and Vaughn Armstrong are similar looking, physically. It's not that hard to see a little something of a connection; build up head Nightwatch guy, have him displaced, then he takes the next step further over the line. But then again, JMS has said that he loves pulling the rug out from under a viewer just to see the reaction it gets. Although in this case it doesn't seem to be one of those situations, since the viewer isn't blind-sided by this issue that I can tell.

                              But as I said, this was a VERY small issue that I simply wondered about, and I was curious if JMS had ever mentioned it or anyone had ever asked him about it at a convention or whatnot. But it wouldn't be that bad of a question........I've heard a lot worse at some of the conventions I've attended!
                              "The cat is not evil for killing the rat, nor is the rat evil for stealing the grain. Each acts according to its nature." Master Po - Kung Fu:TOS

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                              • #45
                                Garibaldi: "Boggs!"
                                Boggs: "Lookin' for me, Chief?"
                                Garibaldi: "Yeah, you and all your Nightwatch buddies"
                                Of course, there's also the fact that the station has a Quarter Million people on it at any one time and Garibaldi knows ALL the "Bad Guys".

                                If we got to meet all of them, it'd be a dozen entire episodes similar to the scene where Sinclair introduced the representatives of Earth's major religions.

                                This is DiceBoy.
                                He sells Dope and mugs tourists in Downbelow ...

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