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20th Anniversary Re-Watch - Season 2

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  • 20th Anniversary Re-Watch - Season 2

    Since I just popped the last disk for Season 1 into the DVD player, I thought I'd get this thread ready for anybody who's ready.

    Jan
    "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

  • #2
    Points Of Departure First aired: November 2, 1994

    I don't think I ever paid attention to the times shown on the screen at the top of this episode. On the Aggy, it was 1:45 AM and on B5 it was 5:30 AM. And there was Sheridan, fresh as a daisy, not even needing a shave. But it certainly explains why Ivanova was so cranky, doesn't it?

    I enjoyed watching Lennier in this episode. He immediately reverted to keeping his eyes lowered when Hedronn was talking to him but there was certainly some steel to him when confronting Kalain and when kicking Sheridan out of Delenn's quarters.

    After reshooting to insert Hague and remove Clark's communicating directly to Ivanova, I was a little surprised to notice that at the end, Sheridan mentioned having personally told the President about the reason the Minbari surrendered. It seemed a little out of place.

    I like this episode. Obviously there was a lot of introducing the new guy but it was an exciting episode, too, with the Minbari confrontation.

    Jan
    "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Jan View Post
      Sheridan mentioned having personally told the President about the reason the Minbari surrendered.
      Joe said this line meant that the President already knew the reason, not that Sheridan told him:

      http://www.jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-14842
      Last edited by JoeD80; 04-04-2013, 12:33 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks, JoeD80. I'd forgotten that part. Really need to re-read the comics soon, too.

        Jan
        "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

        Comment


        • #5
          Yes, Sheridan actually says, "The President is the only other human who knows" not "I told the President"

          I better catch up.
          "And what kind of head of Security would I be if I let people like me know things that I'm not supposed to know? I mean, I know what I know because I have to know it. And if I don't have to know it, I don't tell me, and I don't let anyone else tell me either. " And I can give you reasonable assurances that the head of Security will not report you for doing so."
          "Because you won't tell yourself about it?"

          "I try never to get involved in my own life, too much trouble."

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Jan View Post
            Really need to re-read the comics soon, too.

            Jan
            I was talking to Sebastian just the other day about this; now's the perfect time to re-read In Darkness Find Me! It's a great read for all the Sinclair Fans out there.

            Comment


            • #7
              IÆm glad we did the Season 1 rewatch as I have a deeper appreciation for it now, but this is when the REAL story starts to get moving.

              Points of Departure: weÆve established I was firmly hooked by the show at this point in the broadcast but this one threw me for a loop. I donÆt know what the story is behind the air dates but I remember this one airing not very long after Chrysalis, or at least not as long as there usually is between seasons of your average TV show.

              I remember being pretty upset that Sinclair was gone. When General Hague told that to Susan I thought it wasnÆt permanent or that weÆd be following his journey back to Earth. But then Sinclair was no longer narrating the opening of the show, and Michael OÆHare was no longer in the credits, and it slowly dawned on me that yes, this was a lasting change.

              Luckily I kept watching, though, and I adjusted to Sheridan after just a few episodes.

              This particular episode is not bad considering the main reason for it is to introduce Sheridan. ItÆs a nice touch that Lennier reveals why the Minbari surrendered, which offers the audience a breadcrumb, but thereÆs still more information heÆs holding back to be revealed later. Another example of what I think is JMSÆs outstanding story pacing.

              The showÆs higher budget is evident, too, as the CGI looks a bit smoother and there are also shots like the long walk down the hallway with Susan & Sheridan, which didnÆt happen in Season 1 (I like how they had a random dude buffing the floor in the background, or was that a Space Vacuum?).

              It was also interesting to see that a fair number of Minbari are still pretty POÆd about surrendering to Earth. We got an idea of that in Season 1 but itÆs presented quite strongly here. Putting Sheridan in charge of B5 seems to be having ClarkÆs desired effect. I kept waiting for the rogue ship captain (whose name escapes me, sorry) to break out of his cell but instead he poisoned himself to try & start the war back up. WasnÆt expecting that. It was also a good scene where, after the Trigati is destroyed, Sheridan tries thanking the other Minbari ship and the guy is like, ôWhatever. I hate you.ö Tension all around.

              Random thoughts:

              I like the bit where Susan got caught off guard by SheridanÆs early arrival. She grabs that random security guard who just happens to be standing there to form an ad hoc welcoming detail. Then sheÆs like, ôHere, take his bags to his room.ö

              The whole Top Gun ôdo not fire until fired uponö sequence at the end may seem a bit clichÚ but actually provides a perfect setup for later episodes. Very similar to Garibaldi racing to the rescue in ôSurvivorsö.

              I love how events in one show carry over to subsequent episodes, and that B5 does not have TNGÆs magic Reset Button where each episode starts off the same as the next (like the one where Worf got freaking paralyzed and is beginning to learn how to walk again at the end but next week is back to running around like nothing happened). So it was neat to see Delenn still in the cocoon and Garibaldi still unconscious in medbay. Those elements really made me want to keep watching to find out what would happen.
              "You don't like it here, do you? You'd rather you were back in your quarters, asleep, dreaming dreams of glory."

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Sebastian View Post
                I’m glad we did the Season 1 rewatch as I have a deeper appreciation for it now, but this is when the REAL story starts to get moving.
                While I agree that this is when the story becomes more evident, I think so much was set up in the first season that this season wouldn't have been nearly as good. B5 has so *many* stories going on.

                I don’t know what the story is behind the air dates but I remember this one airing not very long after Chrysalis, or at least not as long as there usually is between seasons of your average TV show.
                In their infinite wisdom, PTEN decided that, rather than end the season on a high note and then come back a while later, it would hold back the last four episodes until almost time to start the next season, leaving no time for anticipation on the part of the audience. To say JMS was less than thrilled at this would be an understatement. From Script Book #3:

                Originally posted by JMS
                I mean, there’s actually a kind of awe that sets in when you begin to really understand the extent of the stupidity involved…the same kind of stunned, silent reverence that comes when you finally see the Mona Lisa up close, or the first time you hear Ode to Joy performed by a live orchestra. The sheer majestic perfection of it sends you to your knees with the realization that this is not just common stupidity, it’s a Mount Everest rising into the clouds…a level of stupidity so monumental that it actually acquires horizontal perspective, like a train disappearing into the distance.

                (I like how they had a random dude buffing the floor in the background, or was that a Space Vacuum?).
                It was hysterical later on in season 5 when even Mack and Bo didn't know what it did.

                Revelations First Aired: November 9, 1994

                In this one I was constantly aware of the acting - both good and...well, lousy. And while the ones I'm about to pick on might have been perfectly adequate actors most of the time, when they were placed oposite truly nuanced acting, it showcased their failings.

                Mary Kay Adams' portrayal of Na'Toth really sucked all of the personality that Julie Caitlyn Brown had endowed the character with. Opposite Andreas, she might just as well have been calling in her performance on the Babcom screen, she was just as not present.

                Beverly Leech as Elizabeth Sheridan...Pretty face. That's really all I got from her. There was no sense of siblings between her and Sheridan and really not much in the way of grief for her friend. Her words were right, even her tone of voice was fine most of the time. But in this episode we really got a look at what Bruce Boxleitner was capable of as an actor and her work suffered in comparison.

                Silly question: How do you suppose Delenn knew that she was ready to leave the chryasalis? From the moans we heard coming from it when she first entered, she didn't become unconscious immediately. Just wondered.

                I loved Delenn's hairstyle when she was first revealed.

                Somehow I almost forget each time that G'Kar warned the Council of the Dark Forces gathering on Z'ha'dum so early on. If he hadn't, I wonder if Sheridan and company would have believed Delenn so readily when she spoke up about the Shadows.

                Kosh has been at the last couple of Council meetings and done absolutely nothing. Wonder if anybody actually needed to be in the suit.

                Jan
                "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Sebastian View Post
                  I donÆt know what the story is behind the air dates but I remember this one airing not very long after Chrysalis, or at least not as long as there usually is between seasons of your average TV show.
                  The story is that PTEN didn't ever listen to Joe.

                  Originally posted by Sebastian View Post
                  The showÆs higher budget is evident, too, as the CGI looks a bit smoother and there are also shots like the long walk down the hallway with Susan & Sheridan, which didnÆt happen in Season 1 (I like how they had a random dude buffing the floor in the background, or was that a Space Vacuum?).
                  The budget was still only about $900k. Not a higher budget; they just got better at what they do.

                  Originally posted by Jan View Post
                  Somehow I almost forget each time that G'Kar warned the Council of the Dark Forces gathering on Z'ha'dum so early on. If he hadn't, I wonder if Sheridan and company would have believed Delenn so readily when she spoke up about the Shadows.
                  Remember she doesn't speak up at all until she feels backed into a corner when Sheridan is trying to get Morden to crack and she's worried that he'll succeed. It was an emergency measure, not something she was willing to say and hope people might believe. She was going to keep that secret as long as possible. I don't think G'Kar speaking up or not would have altered that happening, although it may have affected their later decision to allow G'Kar into the Army of Light.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by JoeD80 View Post
                    The story is that PTEN didn't ever listen to Joe.
                    *sigh* I know that feeling. It's truly amazing what he was able to pull off despite all the hurdles.

                    Originally posted by JoeD80 View Post
                    The budget was still only about $900k. Not a higher budget; they just got better at what they do.
                    WOW! I did not know that. What an incredible job.
                    "You don't like it here, do you? You'd rather you were back in your quarters, asleep, dreaming dreams of glory."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The difference was that in season two they moved off the amiga platform. Quicker computers and (the biggy) more memory.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Triple F View Post
                        The difference was that in season two they moved off the amiga platform. Quicker computers and (the biggy) more memory.
                        Wow, I always thought that was an urban legends of sorts; that they used a loads of Amigas to render the FX in season one.
                        Captain John Sheridan: I really *hate* it when you do that.

                        Kosh: Good!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I always understood that they originally used the NewTek Video Toaster, which was a hardware/software thing based on the Amiga platform. Whether it required "loads" of Amigas I don't know, but I'm sure TripleF does.
                          The Optimist: The glass is half full
                          The Pessimist: The glass is half empty
                          The Engineer: The glass is twice as big as it needs to be

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Yep the CGI was first done with Amigas. I think Kevin Kutchaver used a Mac for his compositing. Commodore went out of business in 1994, so Foundation had to port Lightwave over to PCs since there would be no more vendor support of the Amigas.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The Geometry of Shadows First Aired November 16, 1994

                              Anybody ever notice that in this episode Londo is wearing a grean vest and purple coat? He really was a conflicted character!

                              I loved Sinclair and still missed him at this point but I really appreciated that Sheridan caught on to what Garibaldi was considering and made it gently obvious without making a big deal of it.

                              On another board recently, a poster watching the show for the first time was outraged that Sheridan's flash-forward showed him Londo's future. He simply wouldn't accept that we'd been being told Londo's future from day one - in detail! We heard about (then saw) him and G'Kar strangling each other. And in this episode Elric tells him on no uncertain terms that he'd pay for his mistakes for the rest of his life. Simply brilliant.

                              So much going on in this episode. Vir grows a little bit, Londo keeps inching toward darkness, Sheridan bonds with his crew and we meet the mysterious techno-mages. It's one of the many episodes that seemed to contain an hour and a half's worth of story in 42 minutes.

                              Jan
                              "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

                              Comment

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