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Ark of the Covenant vs. The Apocalypse Box

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  • Ark of the Covenant vs. The Apocalypse Box

    I’ve been doing a little reading up on the Ark of the Covenant. Yeah, I got bored at work...

    I know JMS frequently works biblical references into his writing, especially in terms of larger motifs. It struck me that the apocalypse box from Crusade is almost certainly a direct reference to the ark. Biblical references describe the ark as possessing angelic powers (some sources say it contained the spirit of Mary). Demonstrations of power included the parting of oceans and dramatic military victories for those that controlled it. Conversely, it also brought plague and misery to those who attempted to steal it from its rightful owners.

    Interesting... Would have loved to have seen how the Apocalypse Box thread played out.
    Last edited by Ubik; 11-12-2012, 09:35 AM.
    Captain John Sheridan: I really *hate* it when you do that.

    Kosh: Good!

  • #2
    Originally posted by Ubik View Post
    Biblical references describe the ark as possessing angelic powers (some sources say it contained the spirit of Mary). Demonstrations of power included the parting of oceans and dramatic military victories for those that controlled it. Conversely, it also brought plague and misery to those who attempted to steal it from its rightful owners.

    Interesting... Would have loved to have seen how the Apocalypse Box thread played out.
    I would have loved to see it play out, too but I can't really see that there's really a relationship between the ark (oboy...automatically typed 'arc' there ) and the Apocalypse box.

    The main difference I see is that from what the card player said, the box lies sometimes to its owner, not just to somebody not the owner.

    Also, it was made pretty clear in the poker game that Gideon needed to actively accept ownership of the box, that it couldn't just be gifted or abandoned to be found. That aspect rings a bell in my mind but I'm not recalling at the moment what it is. Something in a mystic or myth tradition?

    Interesting thought!

    Jan
    "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Jan View Post
      I would have loved to see it play out, too but I can't really see that there's really a relationship between the ark (oboy...automatically typed 'arc' there ) and the Apocalypse box.

      The main difference I see is that from what the card player said, the box lies sometimes to its owner, not just to somebody not the owner.

      Also, it was made pretty clear in the poker game that Gideon needed to actively accept ownership of the box, that it couldn't just be gifted or abandoned to be found. That aspect rings a bell in my mind but I'm not recalling at the moment what it is. Something in a mystic or myth tradition?

      Interesting thought!

      Jan
      Jan, that's a fair point about the box's devious nature. I suppose it's a 'loose' connection if anything. Just thought it was interesting. I'm sure there's probably another good reference to be had in mystical or religious tradition.
      Captain John Sheridan: I really *hate* it when you do that.

      Kosh: Good!

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      • #4
        Also, it was made pretty clear in the poker game that Gideon needed to actively accept ownership of the box, that it couldn't just be gifted or abandoned to be found. That aspect rings a bell in my mind but I'm not recalling at the moment what it is. Something in a mystic or myth tradition?
        Reminds me, a little, of an old British movie ‘Night Of The Demon’ (1957), based on the short story ‘Casting the Runes’.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Demon#Plot

        Basically a Demon turns up and kills anyone who receives a parchment containing the relevant curse. The parchment must be taken by the recipient – so sneaking it into a coat pocket they are wearing won’t work, but handing them their coat - which they accept - after sneaking into a pocket will. The curse can be lifted if you can, in turn, get someone else to accept it from you.

        The idea of surreptitiously getting someone to accept a curse (or bad luck) via some kind of marked token, is something I’ve seen crop up in a couple of other movies/books, so it can probably be tracked back to half a dozen possible ancient origins (depending who you read ), as with most of these kinds of things.

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        • #5
          They used that curse in Drag Me to Hell, where the demon was going to come for whoever was in possession of the cursed object.

          Vampires and certain other nasties used to be unable to come into your home unless they were invited in.

          Ubik, you forgot about the Ark's ability to melt Nazis.

          I'd like to know what was in that box, maybe it was some kind of a piece of a Vorlon or a Shadow that didn't leave with the rest because it was exiled from thier respective group. It can just be using it's "owners" to further it's goal of whatever.
          "And what kind of head of Security would I be if I let people like me know things that I'm not supposed to know? I mean, I know what I know because I have to know it. And if I don't have to know it, I don't tell me, and I don't let anyone else tell me either. " And I can give you reasonable assurances that the head of Security will not report you for doing so."
          "Because you won't tell yourself about it?"

          "I try never to get involved in my own life, too much trouble."

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Marsden View Post
            They used that curse in Drag Me to Hell, where the demon was going to come for whoever was in possession of the cursed object.

            Vampires and certain other nasties used to be unable to come into your home unless they were invited in.

            Ubik, you forgot about the Ark's ability to melt Nazis.

            I'd like to know what was in that box, maybe it was some kind of a piece of a Vorlon or a Shadow that didn't leave with the rest because it was exiled from thier respective group. It can just be using it's "owners" to further it's goal of whatever.
            Damn! How could I forget the melting Nazi part?

            I always got a kinda twisted vorlon vibe from the box. In fact, the apocalypse box was my favourite thing about the whole damn series.
            Captain John Sheridan: I really *hate* it when you do that.

            Kosh: Good!

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            • #7
              Digging up this thread beceuase I found some little bits of interesting information on the apocalypse box.

              http://www.comp.dit.ie/dgordon/Apoca.../abox0001.html

              The scan from the Mongoose RPG book is very insightful and gives a compressed origin story of the box itself. Happy reading!

              Oh, and the web site owner echoes my idea about the Ark of the Covenant too!
              Last edited by Ubik; 03-22-2013, 08:03 AM.
              Captain John Sheridan: I really *hate* it when you do that.

              Kosh: Good!

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Ubik View Post
                Digging up this thread beceuase I found some little bits of interesting information on the apocalypse box.

                http://www.comp.dit.ie/dgordon/Apoca.../abox0001.html

                The scan from the Mongoose RPG book is very insightful and gives a compressed origin story of the box itself. Happy reading!

                Oh, and the web site owner echoes my idea about the Ark of the Covenant too!
                I always thought the Apocalypse Box siphoned off a bit of the soul of whoever accepted it, each time they used it. The effect on the person would be cumulative, like the effect on Bester each time he did a deathbed scan. Lyta said that each time, a part of him never came back. Ultimately, the owner dies (like a battery drained of life energy) or becomes a sociopath.
                Last edited by KoshN; 03-22-2013, 08:51 AM.
                Mac Breck (KoshN)
                ------------------
                Warner Brothers is Lucy.
                JMS and we fans are collectively Charlie Brown.
                Babylon 5 is the football.

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                • #9
                  Maybe it has a one eyed ugly little monster in it.

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_Open_Till_Doomsday
                  "And what kind of head of Security would I be if I let people like me know things that I'm not supposed to know? I mean, I know what I know because I have to know it. And if I don't have to know it, I don't tell me, and I don't let anyone else tell me either. " And I can give you reasonable assurances that the head of Security will not report you for doing so."
                  "Because you won't tell yourself about it?"

                  "I try never to get involved in my own life, too much trouble."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I never thought that most of the Mongoose stuff was canon, only an educated guess.
                    What a wonderful world you live in. -
                    Yeah, well, the rent is cheap, the pay is decent and I get to make my own hours.

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                    • #11
                      Three years ago I got a nice carved wooden tea caddy for Christmas and last year I got a larger wooden nicknack box.

                      I was doing the spring cleaning a while back and took to the notion of attempting to put the first box inside the second (I don't have the equipment to do it the other way around sadly).

                      The were a perfect fit and it looked like I got myself my very own Apocalypse Box (sometimes it makes a cuppa).
                      I have the wings for Bingo.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Shr'eshhhhhh View Post
                        Three years ago I got a nice carved wooden tea caddy for Christmas and last year I got a larger wooden nicknack box.

                        I was doing the spring cleaning a while back and took to the notion of attempting to put the first box inside the second (I don't have the equipment to do it the other way around sadly).

                        The were a perfect fit and it looked like I got myself my very own Apocalypse Box (sometimes it makes a cuppa).
                        Does it sometimes lie? Has it ever given you a cup of coffee instead?!?
                        Captain John Sheridan: I really *hate* it when you do that.

                        Kosh: Good!

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