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Does Studio JMS change anything for Babylon 5?

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  • #31
    Dreg, I have to disagree with part of your post. While I agree that it's probably a good idea to have somebody looking over the occasional writer/filmmaker shoulder, there were certain major events in the Norman/Gwen story that did not come from JMS but from higher on the editorial ladder. Same thing with One More Day, which was DRASTICALLY changed by the higher-ups. Both of those incidents are very well documented; a five-minute Google search will confirm that.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by dregj View Post
      its not about budget with JMS
      he needs someone to reign him in occassionally
      (like we all do)
      did anyone actually tell him that having that lady punching mines in space was a terrible idea and looked comical/pathetic?
      no because hes JMS

      he got some mad skills but he sometimes has to be saved from some of his more self indulgent ideas (like george lucas).
      Actually, since the final product in the movie was *completely* different from what started out in the script, it seems obvious that the weapons system was arrived at in consultation with JMS' production crew. And while I wasn't there, I'd wager a guess that the idea was to do something far more exciting than what we saw of the beginning of the Earth/Minbari war. Remember that (probably not)? It was a whopping flip of a switch and some lights on the shooter's face. Not exactly exciting for such an important moment.

      You know, I don't want to seem like we're ganging up on you, dregj, but in this post you've ventured some uninformed opinions on a forum full of *very* informed people. Maybe an approach you might try is to say what you didn't like and *ask* if anybody knows how or why something happened. Or even post both what you liked and didn't like. Believe me, we'd love to discuss it.

      Jan
      "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Jan View Post
        Actually, since the final product in the movie was *completely* different from what started out in the script, it seems obvious that the weapons system was arrived at in consultation with JMS' production crew. And while I wasn't there, I'd wager a guess that the idea was to do something far more exciting than what we saw of the beginning of the Earth/Minbari war. Remember that (probably not)? It was a whopping flip of a switch and some lights on the shooter's face. Not exactly exciting for such an important moment.

        Jan
        The beginning of the Earth/Minbari war as seen in the episode 'A Late Delivery from Avalon'?
        That was Logan flipping switches to fire on the Minbari - most memorable indeed!

        I watched 'Rangers' just the other day and thought maybe the addition of a spinning chair or even just targeting charts and readouts surrounding her would have been an improvement if that's the way they had to go.
        Must be the result of budget restraints, production time limits and meddling studio execs.

        The nice thing i've learned about this forum is there are knowledgeable people here with some good inside stories.

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        • #34
          Actually, the original script specified a spinning chair. It (the chair set-up) turned out to be too expensive. From the script:

          INT. GUNNERY POD

          -- a round, black space that suddenly LIGHTS UP with the view
          of surrounding space in a complete 360 display, her seat
          suspended in the center of it all.
          (Visually it's a cross between a WW2 flying fortress tail
          gunner, and the circular readouts on the fighters in the Lost
          in Space feature.)
          I think that one part of the decisions might also have been the stunning space visuals that (I believe) came from JPL. For all the complaints about the weapons, nobody seems to notice the glorious space shots.

          And yes...you're right about the scene beginning the E/M war. Sorta...mostly...

          Jan
          Last edited by Jan; 09-04-2012, 06:38 PM.
          "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

          Comment


          • #35
            Going back to the original question asked in the therad...

            I have been pretty quiet on the Studio JMS subject largely because I don't think it will change a whole lot for us. It seems like the next logical step for JMS (freelance writer, staff writer, story editor, producer, executive producer, studio executive), and it seems like it might give him more creative control on projects. I think it's a big deal for him, and I'm very happy for him. Still, I doubt Studio JMS will be independently financing projects. He will still need deals to make things happen -- particularly in the case of existing properties like B5. Maybe I'm wrong. I freely admit I know next to nothing about the art of the deal in Hollywood.

            All that being said, I have always hoped for and looked forward to new projects from JMS, and that doesn't change.
            "That was the law, as set down by Valen. Three castes: worker, religious, warrior."

            Comment


            • #36
              Studio JMS probably won't be financing big projects for a while but JMS did mention that the "Living Dead: The Musical" web series was going to be self-financed.

              It'll be interesting to see how he uses this new company. He's free to make deals inside and out of it so it'll be fun to watch what types of projects go where.

              Jan
              "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

              Comment


              • #37
                cleary some of the decisions on his watch were made with influence from higher ups
                i always wondered
                was it his choice to cast tracey scoggins in the lost tales
                i kinda thought she was one of the worst things about season 5
                and the they bring her back again?

                lets not forget most of marcus cole's dialogue
                and grey 17 is missing

                he very good but he has faults

                like his before watchmen scabery
                Last edited by dregj; 09-05-2012, 07:29 AM. Reason: spelling

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                • #38
                  I'm not sure, but I don't think 'scabery' is a word. And if you're talking about JMS being a 'scab', that word specifically refers to someone taking a union worker's place during a strike.

                  As far as I know, it was entirely JMS' choice to include Tracy Scoggins in the Lost Tales.

                  Jan
                  "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Jan View Post
                    It was a whopping flip of a switch and some lights on the shooter's face. Not exactly exciting for such an important moment.
                    I know DaveNarn beat me to it but seeing Michael York reprise his role, even if it was stock footage, was very exciting for me. It brought a flood of memories that really humanizes the whole thing so well, one of B5's greatest strengths, in my opinion. It all sticks together like a great tapestry and one that when you look at one part and go to another if flows logically, and upon further reviewing of the previous part it still makes sense and hasn't "changed itself" is some bizarre retcon or some such chicanery.

                    Admittedly, someone that is seeing this for the first time would have not really noticed it much, but then In the Begining is kind of a hard thing to catagorize for me.

                    It pretty much spoils, as in spoilers no ruining or making unwatchable, the first 3 and a half seasons of B5. Do you watch it first? Do you wait til later? If you watch first it gives too much away, you watch it later and you already know most of it. It's a great work, don't misunderstand me, I love it. I just wouldn't know how to handle showing it to someone. Fortunately, I don't have any friends.

                    BTW, I found the beautiful shots of space hard to appreciate with that silly actress trying to be tough in front of it. It was bad. In my opinon, of course, and if anyone else likes it, I mean you no offense. I read that it was supposed to be much more like the command rooms of the Minbari cruisers and she was supposed to be directing the fire appropriately, I believe that would have been much better than what was received.
                    Last edited by Marsden; 09-05-2012, 11:57 AM.
                    "And what kind of head of Security would I be if I let people like me know things that I'm not supposed to know? I mean, I know what I know because I have to know it. And if I don't have to know it, I don't tell me, and I don't let anyone else tell me either. " And I can give you reasonable assurances that the head of Security will not report you for doing so."
                    "Because you won't tell yourself about it?"

                    "I try never to get involved in my own life, too much trouble."

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by dregj View Post
                      cleary some of the decisions on his watch were made with influence from higher ups
                      i always wondered
                      was it his choice to cast tracey scoggins in the lost tales
                      i kinda thought she was one of the worst things about season 5
                      and the they bring her back again?

                      lets not forget most of marcus cole's dialogue
                      and grey 17 is missing

                      he very good but he has faults

                      like his before watchmen scabery
                      The fact that you don't like something doesn't mean it doesn't come from JMS. Marcus is one of the most popular characters on the show (to a large degree because of his dialogue), and it would be very peculiar if WB "forced" JMS to cast Tracy Scoggins in The Lost Tales, given that they really didn't care very much about what the hell he did so long as it was cheap. And you may think Lochley's a terrible character, but others like her. I do, for example. I especially like her in The Lost Tales.
                      Jonas Kyratzes | Lands of Dream

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                      • #41
                        I too liked Tracy Scoggins. I enjoyed her in season 5, loved her in Thirdspace, and was very happy to see her in The Lost Tales.

                        I also thought Marcus was a terrific character. His dialogue was excellent, and I enjoyed his interactions with Ivanova and their friendship muchly.

                        But then there isn't anything about B5 that I can truly say I dislike anymore. I was watching season 3 last night, and when Julie Musante's character came on I even liked her!

                        My first run through I hated her passionately, and then still disliked her on the second go round - think it took about 4 trips but I now think she's adorable and find her interactions with Sheridan amusing.

                        That's the thing with B5 for me, the more I watch the more I love and the more I appreciate it all. Which is why I've decided to be satisfied with the B5 collection we have now (there is quite a lot really) and not expect or desire anything more. Though of course I would never say no to anything extra

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Marsden View Post
                          I know DaveNarn beat me to it but seeing Michael York reprise his role, even if it was stock footage, was very exciting for me. It brought a flood of memories that really humanizes the whole thing so well, one of B5's greatest strengths, in my opinion. It all sticks together like a great tapestry and one that when you look at one part and go to another if flows logically, and upon further reviewing of the previous part it still makes sense and hasn't "changed itself" is some bizarre retcon or some such chicanery.

                          Admittedly, someone that is seeing this for the first time would have not really noticed it much, but then In the Begining is kind of a hard thing to catagorize for me.

                          It pretty much spoils, as in spoilers no ruining or making unwatchable, the first 3 and a half seasons of B5. Do you watch it first? Do you wait til later? If you watch first it gives too much away, you watch it later and you already know most of it. It's a great work, don't misunderstand me, I love it. I just wouldn't know how to handle showing it to someone. Fortunately, I don't have any friends.

                          BTW, I found the beautiful shots of space hard to appreciate with that silly actress trying to be tough in front of it. It was bad. In my opinon, of course, and if anyone else likes it, I mean you no offense. I read that it was supposed to be much more like the command rooms of the Minbari cruisers and she was supposed to be directing the fire appropriately, I believe that would have been much better than what was received.
                          Cool, I was sure I wasn't the only one that likes that scene

                          As you said about a great tapestry - that single moment gunnery sergeant David McIntyre flipped the weapons controls to fire on the Minbari was a nexus for the next 10 years.
                          That has to be one of the most significant moments in B5 and I'm glad they devoted an entire episode to it and revisited it again in 'Atonement'
                          I'm not to crazy about the King Arthur angle per se, but I'm glad so many of the cast was included in the story.

                          As far as 'In The Beginning' being a big spoiler to the series. I think that was TNT, the new network's idea to make the movie. Since they were paying for the 5th season and wanted to bring a lot of new viewers up to speed.

                          The only thing I don't like about it is it wasn't a feature film.
                          In '98 there where only a handful of big summer movies...

                          Saving Private Ryan
                          Armageddon
                          Something About Mary
                          Lethal Weapon 4

                          All released in July

                          If they had 75 million to make 'In The Beginning' and released it in November it would have been a huge.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Delenn_of_Mir View Post
                            I too liked Tracy Scoggins. I enjoyed her in season 5, loved her in Thirdspace, and was very happy to see her in The Lost Tales.
                            I liked Tracy, too, and thought the character developed quite well given the limited time she was on screen. I think you mispelled "River of Souls" as "Thirdspace", though.
                            "That was the law, as set down by Valen. Three castes: worker, religious, warrior."

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by WorkerCaste View Post
                              I liked Tracy, too, and thought the character developed quite well given the limited time she was on screen. I think you mispelled "River of Souls" as "Thirdspace", though.
                              and A Call to Arms.
                              Mac Breck (KoshN)
                              ------------------
                              Warner Brothers is Lucy.
                              JMS and we fans are collectively Charlie Brown.
                              Babylon 5 is the football.

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                              • #45
                                And just to beat this dead horse all the way,...

                                She was good in the Crusade episodes, too.


                                Originally posted by DaveNarn View Post
                                Cool, I was sure I wasn't the only one that likes that scene

                                As you said about a great tapestry - that single moment gunnery sergeant David McIntyre flipped the weapons controls to fire on the Minbari was a nexus for the next 10 years.
                                That has to be one of the most significant moments in B5 and I'm glad they devoted an entire episode to it and revisited it again in 'Atonement'
                                I'm not to crazy about the King Arthur angle per se, but I'm glad so many of the cast was included in the story.

                                As far as 'In The Beginning' being a big spoiler to the series. I think that was TNT, the new network's idea to make the movie. Since they were paying for the 5th season and wanted to bring a lot of new viewers up to speed.

                                The only thing I don't like about it is it wasn't a feature film.
                                In '98 there where only a handful of big summer movies...

                                Saving Private Ryan
                                Armageddon
                                Something About Mary
                                Lethal Weapon 4

                                All released in July

                                If they had 75 million to make 'In The Beginning' and released it in November it would have been a huge.
                                Oh, I agree completely. That really would have kicked off the 5th season and they would have been able to do more, I'm sure. A Call to Arms would have been great as a feature. The Buck Rogers pilot with Gil Gerard and the Battlestar Gallactica pilot both were released theatrically and they were considered successful, In The Beginning would have been wonderful in the theater. All those Minbari cruisers jumping out on the big screen? Too bad it didn't happen that way.
                                Last edited by Marsden; 09-08-2012, 10:02 AM. Reason: I can't spell. :(
                                "And what kind of head of Security would I be if I let people like me know things that I'm not supposed to know? I mean, I know what I know because I have to know it. And if I don't have to know it, I don't tell me, and I don't let anyone else tell me either. " And I can give you reasonable assurances that the head of Security will not report you for doing so."
                                "Because you won't tell yourself about it?"

                                "I try never to get involved in my own life, too much trouble."

                                Comment

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