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  • Dr Maturin
    replied
    <<(serious genius here. I can not under-recommend 13th Warrior soundtrack)>>

    Is that the movie based on Michael Crichton's novel Eaters of the Dead?

    Leave a comment:


  • bakana
    replied
    If you want to be a music critic, go earn a degree in music.
    Gee. I always thought that Critics were composed of the people who Flunked Out of the profession they denigrate.

    what a bunch of vipers!
    With or without Pits ??

    Leave a comment:


  • NotKosh
    replied
    Originally posted by AislingGrey


    So, my guess is that most of you here - those posting from the US, anyway - can't name more than three composers of serious music born in the 20th century, _offhand_ (i.e. you're not allowed to look it up). Why? Because most casual American music listeners have a penchant for the melodic, sweet sounds of the classical and romantic periods, and have a very hard time with the unusual tonalities of 20th (and 21st) century music.
    Crap.

    I can come up with
    Shostakovich
    Frank Zappa
    Philip Glass
    Kitaro

    Then I defer to my soundtrack knowledge

    John L. Williams (lets grab a bunch of Holst for Star Wars)
    Basil Poledouris (by far my favorite. see the Conan and Les Miserables soundtracks)
    Hans Zimmer
    Jerry Goldsmith (serious genius here. I can not under-recommend 13th Warrior soundtrack)


    ...currently listening to the Gladiator soundtrack.

    PS. While I did find Chen different and dissonant at first, expecting Franke, I did grow to accept and appreciate it to a degree. Similar music, but not Chen (I believe), in the new Battlestar Galactica mini-series.
    Last edited by NotKosh; 09-15-2004, 08:50 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Michael Malloy
    replied
    "Michael, may I point out that with only 8 posts from you conversations have gone sour twice already? I think the common denominator is...you. Maybe you should calm down a little and get to know us better?"

    So...my whole life experience can be summed up in the 8 posts you "know?" me from on this forum?

    And you call me jugemental?

    I'd be a lot less inclinded to complain if I didn't find myself pecked to death every time I post on this forum.

    There is more to life than finding every possible fault in every person one encounters.

    Some of you might try it some time. It's a lot more enjoyable way to live.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dr Maturin
    replied
    <<I think most members of this board are quite smart (OK, not all).>>

    I resent that!

    Uh, were you talking about me?

    Leave a comment:


  • vacantlook
    replied
    I don't think I've ever encountered a more mean spirited bunch of unpleasant people in my life.
    Really? A good number of the posters here seem to me to be far nicer than in a vast multitude of other places on the net and in the real world.

    I out rank you on age alone.
    "A man that is young in years may be old in hours if he have lost no time." -- Francis Bacon

    Age is a guarantee in neither wisdom nor experience.

    And personally, I think the citation of age in attempt to discredit someone is immature.

    Leave a comment:


  • Capt.Montoya
    replied
    Originally posted by Michael Malloy
    All right already!

    Gee, what a bunch of vipers!

    What do you do to your friends, eat them alive?

    I don't think I've ever encountered a more mean spirited bunch of unpleasant people in my life. Not the sort I'd want to be stuck in an elevator with.


    [ ... mean spirited personal comments removed ... ]

    One thing is constant: the cultural gap between the musically informed and the uninformed is as great now or worse than it was when I was earning my degree in music.

    Opinion and taste are negotiable - that is not the question and I have no argument with a person who offers an "opinion" as such. A person who makes a false statement of "fact" had better be prepared to back up that statement or look like an idiot. This forum is inhabited by numerous loud mouthed idiots.
    Loud mouthed?
    Of course, and opinionated too.
    Idiots? I don't think so... I think most members of this board are quite smart (OK, not all).

    I've never perceived comments like those in this thread as mean spirited... maybe you are taking each word way too seriously.

    Jan is right, you need to calm down and not take every proferred opinion as a statement of fact.

    I see this as a raucous bunch, always ready to post differing opinions (sometimes even backing them up by facts!). Maybe you are used to posting in forums where people have much more uniform opinions and always give references and links to back them up, but that certainly is not the case here (other than quotes of JMS posts on B5 topics). Posting disagreements and dissenting opinions has been the norm, but I don't think most of us take it personally...
    This is more of an informal conversation forum than a forum for scholars of music (or any other topic).

    As for the cultural gap between the (whatever)ly informed and the uninformed... it will always exist. E.g. for me as a scientist the cultural gap between the scientifically informed and the uninformed seems too vast and ever growing.
    The only way to bridge it is if the informed help educate the uninformed, respectfully, without snobbishness...

    If you want to help educate this forum on music I'd love to read such contribution.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jan
    replied
    Originally posted by Michael Malloy
    All right already!

    Gee, what a bunch of vipers!

    What do you do to your friends, eat them alive?

    I don't think I've ever encountered a more mean spirited bunch of unpleasant people in my life. Not the sort I'd want to be stuck in an elevator with.
    Michael, may I point out that with only 8 posts from you conversations have gone sour twice already? I think the common denominator is...you. Maybe you should calm down a little and get to know us better?

    And Amy, my dear precious ever so experienced Amy, grow up! I visited your web site and viewed your photos. For someone who spouts off about having a lifetime of experience blah, blah, blah, with the most esteemed professionals in the world, you must have started your alleged carreer 20 years before you were born! Your photos show a girl of about 25 at the most. So, don't presume to lecture me about experience and professionalism. I out rank you on age alone. I have to be older than your father.
    You didn't intend it, but you just paid her a compliment. Take my word for it, Amy's regularly mistaken for *much* younger than she is. I know, because I was mistaken for her *mother* at DragonCon!

    Opinion and taste are negotiable - that is not the question and I have no argument with a person who offers an "opinion" as such. A person who makes a false statement of "fact" had better be prepared to back up that statement or look like an idiot. This forum is inhabited by numerous loud mouthed idiots.
    Why not just assume that anything you read here is an opinion unless it's backed up by some form of verifiable evidence? It'd sure be easier on all of us if you didn't go on the attack every time you disagree with something, which, IMO, is exactly what you've been doing. Being fans of the B5 universe doesn't mean we have to adore every single component.


    Jan

    Leave a comment:


  • Michael Malloy
    replied
    All right already!

    Gee, what a bunch of vipers!

    What do you do to your friends, eat them alive?

    I don't think I've ever encountered a more mean spirited bunch of unpleasant people in my life. Not the sort I'd want to be stuck in an elevator with.

    And Amy, my dear precious ever so experienced Amy, grow up! I visited your web site and viewed your photos. For someone who spouts off about having a lifetime of experience blah, blah, blah, with the most esteemed professionals in the world, you must have started your alleged carreer 20 years before you were born! Your photos show a girl of about 25 at the most. So, don't presume to lecture me about experience and professionalism. I out rank you on age alone. I have to be older than your father.



    One thing is constant: the cultural gap between the musically informed and the uninformed is as great now or worse than it was when I was earning my degree in music.

    Opinion and taste are negotiable - that is not the question and I have no argument with a person who offers an "opinion" as such. A person who makes a false statement of "fact" had better be prepared to back up that statement or look like an idiot. This forum is inhabited by numerous loud mouthed idiots.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dr Maturin
    replied
    Aside from the aforementioned films, new "Serious" music just...isn't there. Big city and university radio may have a station or day or time slot devoted to it, but I couldn't name anyone besides the movie guys because it just isn't marketed like rock or played like classic rock. So I stick with the "classical" music.

    Leave a comment:


  • Capt.Montoya
    replied
    Originally posted by AislingGrey
    Evan Chen's music grows on one... if one gives it half a chance.
    Well, you simply can't say something like this as though it is fact. Taste in music - and art - and film - and books - and food - and everything else - is subjective. Chen's music may have grown on _you_, after _you_ gave it half a chance. But some people simply will not be able to get past the alienness of the tonality, and the odd percussive use of pitched instruments, etc. etc.
    I just said "one" not everyone.
    I agree on the subjectivity (I seriously despise music snobs who think their tastes are superior because they are obscure and not popular, by which I don't mean Amy, but people I've "met" on rock music boards), but will point out that there are objective measures in each of those areas. In writing you can judge correct spelling and grammar objectively... of course you may argue that liking that (and considering that bad spelling and grammar can ruin the reading experience) is a subjective choice... I obviously don't, I do think there are some objective criteria for writing (but I also loved the literary experimentation of the SF New Wave).

    Three Serious Composers?

    I love Francis Poulenc's Organ Concerto... I absolutely love it. I have it on a CD with his "Concerte champetre" and "Gloria" but those other two haven't grabbed me as much.

    I've heard a little from Dmitri Shostakovich too.

    I don't know many I'll admit.

    Here's an unusual choice for serious composers of the last century: have you heard Keith Emerson's "Piano Concerto No. 1" (number one and only I might add)?

    I'll suggest going to Epitonic ( http://www.epitonic.com/ ) at the 20th Century Composers section for some free MP3 samples... but don't go to find names to answer Amy (TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsAisling)'s challenge, that would be cheating. Also, I'm not sure all of them fall in the category of "serious" composers.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ben-Thayer Dunnthaedt
    replied
    I always thought Chen had a slight influence from some of the really eclectic ones, like John Cage. What do you think Aisling?

    But I only knew one of your examples! Darn! That is, if by Stravinsky you mean Igor. But he was born in the 19th century...........

    Although enjoying Baroque, I suppose I'm into Debussy these days more than others. And speaking of Debussy, this quote describes our discussion on Even Chen quite well:

    "There is no theory. You have only to listen. Pleasure is the law. I love music passionately. And because l love it, I try to free it from barren traditions that stifle it. It is a free art gushing forth, an open-air art boundless as the elements, the wind, the sky, the sea. It must never be shut in and become an academic art."

    And like Radar O'Reilly said: "I'm partial to the fugue. Can you say that in front of a lady?"

    Leave a comment:


  • CRONAN
    replied
    But some opinions are more valid than others, yes?

    Really not up for getting into that discussion again.

    Leave a comment:


  • AmyG
    replied
    Let's see........Gershwin, Bernstein, and Copeland?
    Close enough. Gershwin was actually born in the latest part of the 19th century. In any case, I feel compelled to point out that you chose the most obvious ones. Excepting these very prominent heavy-hitters from the list, can anyone else come up with three more?

    And I'm not even counting John Williams and Danny Elfman - although Wiliams has written some beautiful serious music. Obviously, loads of people know them from their film scores. (Hey, it's my game - it's my rules! <g>)

    I also wouldn't count Ellington and Strahorn, but Irving Berlin _kinda_ counts.

    I guess I was trying to point out that Chen falls into the same aesthetic pile as people like Hindemith, Webern, Berio, Stravinsky, Penderecki, Ligeti, Berg, etc. etc. And how many of you have recordings of their works among your collection? But I'm sure you have Bach, Brahms, Beethoven...and okay, probably some Mahler, too, so there's some 20th century people probably know fairly well.

    I'm surprised no one mentioned Gorecki or Corigliano.

    I'm not arguing that Chen's music doesn't grow on _anyone_; just that you can't make a blanket statement that if you do this (listen to his music regularly), then result "x" will happen (it will grow on you), not with regard to _any_ form of art. Taste is mainly unquantifiable.

    Having said that, I think he's a capable composer who would have really matured well given time. I wonder if he's still composing...

    Amy (the artist formerly known as Aisling)

    Leave a comment:


  • FuryPilot
    replied
    Remember all the "I hate Sheridan" and "man this season sucks" posts we all waded through when B5 was on the air?

    I put most "I hate the Crusade music" complaints in the same round bin.

    Crusade was to be a *different* show than Babylon 5. Same universe, but a different show. The music reflects those differences, just as it was supposed to.

    If you "hate" something just because it differs from you thought "it ought to be", or what you expected; oh well. You are not in charge of it.

    I find it amazing that for people who are so future-oriented, sci-fi fans can be the most hide-bound opponents to change.

    Having said all that, if your opinion is actually based on the music (like "I hate the percussion coming in at odd times") then you have a valid opinion.

    FP

    Leave a comment:

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