The caharacter who grew the least

[grumbler]

Originally posted by Towelmaster
I would vote for Marcus. He came in as the ultra-romantic ranger and he left as the same person.

A good choice. He changed a lot offscreen before we got to see him, but his only major change was falling in love, and he carried out his wooing of Ivanova exactly as he carried out his duties - in a way so understated as to be almost invisible.

[Capt.Montoya]

I'm actually thinking of Mary Kay Adams... but I can't remember where I read the above. The posts archive has little, only a few comments that she tried to reinterpret the character. Her situation did parallel that of Andrea Thompson, but Na'Toth was a less important character.
I wasn't aware that Julie Caitlin Brown also had problems with the make-up, but I remember that G'Kar's original attachÚ, Ko'Dath "suffered an unfortunate airlock accident" because the actress that protrayed her had similar issues (or worse).

[AmyG]

It was indeed the choice of the actress that portrayed Na'Toth in the end to be written out... by trying to play her her way, not the scripted way, and demanding more screen time than her character deserved. She didn't understand the ensemble cast limitations on her character. JMS wrote less and less for her and finally left her out entirely. So I'll agree that it wasn't the production's fault.
At least that's what I remember.

Nope, you're remembering the situation with Andrea Thompson (Talia). In the case of Julie Caitlin Brown (Na'Toth), the actress has stated at cons that she was having problems with the makeup, that the harsh chemicals were damaging (and even scarring) her skin, and that the producers weren't able to provide for this in her contract to her satisfaction (i.e. she wanted a clause that would allow her to take time off at her discretion to let her skin rest).

Aisling

[Capt.Montoya]

It was indeed the choice of the actress that portrayed Na'Toth in the end to be written out... by trying to play her her way, not the scripted way, and demanding more screen time than her character deserved. She didn't understand the ensemble cast limitations on her character. JMS wrote less and less for her and finally left her out entirely. So I'll agree that it wasn't the production's fault.
At least that's what I remember.

I also think that Sheridan grew a lot... at his arrival he couldn't have been the president of the Interstellar Alliance, not at all, he would also have been unable to realize how to stop the Vorlon-Shadow cycle of conflict. I could agree that his personality may have had that capability already... but he had to grow on experience and knowledge to reach the point where he did all that.

You know who really grew the least: Emperor Turhan.
He not only did not grow: he diminished to inexistence.

[AmyG]

Lennier grew the least in my opinion. He was pretty much Lennier through the whole series until he admitted his love for Delenn ... but that didn't happen until late on. His ultimate change is one for the worst but otherwise he grew very little. He was always honorable and always disciplined but interested in the 'greater good'.

Shadow-Sentient, I couldn't disagree more! I'm thinking of the Lennier who arrived on the station in first season, who couldn't even look Delenn in the eye, and how he would have reacted to the idea that he might someday be a Ranger and in fact _betray_ the Rangers. Just not in his makeup, at all. I think that maybe of the characters who changed alot, Lennier's was the most understated because it was mostly internal - he really didn't have a confidante on the station, except for Delenn, and...of course...there were things he could not tell her.

Natoth grew very little ... but she sort of had the cards stacked against her as she was all but written out of the show until the fifth season where we find that she is a prisoner on Centauri Prime.

As for Na'Toth, I'll agree that she grew so little mainly because she was hardly on the show - but I also want to clarify your information. Na'Toth was indeed written out, but that was the actress's choice, and not the writer's or producers'. I could be wrong, but the way you're stating it above seems like you are peeved at the 'Powers That Be' for her departure. Well, it ain't their fault!

Aisling

[WorkerCaste]

Originally posted by CRONAN
As for other things that are growing, we could always toss workercaste's vocabulary into the mix ^^

Due to an untoward confluence of circumstances including an unwelcome, influenza-like illness, I found it necessary to absent myself from the stimulating discussions to be found with all of you, my fellow B5 enthusiasts. My recuperation has progressed apace to the point where I know find myself able to rejoin the discourse, and am quite certain that the stimulus thus provided with further assuage my residual symptoms. I am delighted to find that the topic of the character with the least growth has garnered a number of astute posts, but I must confess to missing the precise connotation of CRONANÆs reference to my vocabulary. Is it truly your belief that my vocabulary is growing? If so, I thank you for your considerate observation! Perchance, though, were you referring to the addition of the word ôcaharacter" to my vocabulary. If such was the case, then I would say that I appreciate your felicitous good humor!

BTW: Capt. Montoya, I was really looking for a way to correct the thread name. IÆve already had to correct quite some number of my posts due to various fat-fingered typos and brain freezes!

[Towelmaster]

My 2c. Corwin did not grow much but he wasn't really a big player on B5 was he?

I would vote for Marcus. He came in as the ultra-romantic ranger and he left as the same person.

[Shadow-Sentient]

Lennier grew the least in my opinion. He was pretty much Lennier through the whole series until he admitted his love for Delenn ... but that didn't happen until late on. His ultimate change is one for the worst but otherwise he grew very little. He was always honorable and always disciplined but interested in the 'greater good'.

Zach also grew very little. He did go through a major dilemma that made him choose between two sides and he grew some there but overall he did not grow in any other way.

Sheridan grew in many ways. Too many to begin listing them. He like, G'Kar (Who saw probably the biggest change and had a life changing epiphany), Londo (Who changed from a loveable buffoon to a dangerous ruler and ultimate victim of his own desire), Lyta (Who became much more than she ever anticipated leading a rebellion of telepaths and growing psychicly beyond all reason), Delenn (She broke from her people and became more human. Fell in love with a human, became a powerful force when she was merely a humble student under the tutelage of Dukhat), Vir (Fat, flustered, flounder ... Emperor "upside down in bed with two women), Franklin (All business ... addict ... recovered adict ... Headof Xenobiology), and Garribaldi (Washed up, last chance, drunk, recovering alcoholic, tool of the psi-corps, drunk, billionaire) all were very dynamic characters. One for instance would be that Sheridan died. When he came back he was essentially a different person ... less emotional more down to business and less clouded by his personal feelings and more directed by his need to see things through despite the human cost at times. You can't go through much more of a change than that.

Natoth grew very little ... but she sort of had the cards stacked against her as she was all but written out of the show until the fifth season where we find that she is a prisoner on Centauri Prime.

But that's just how I see it.

[AmyG]

And remember he and Hague talking about why he was Santiago's second choice to run the station: because he _looked_ like a jarhead. Which, of course, he wasn't.

Aisling

[bakana]

We se Sheridan slowly evolve from the straight-shooting, "tell 'em like it is" guy of season two (best epitomized by his proposed speech and the wry "it is the thought that counts" approach to the secretive manipulkator

Funny, I found him to be manipulative and Political from the very beginning.

Just because he Says he hates politics doesn't mean he isn't Playing the Game...

[grumbler]

I am gonna disagree with Aisling 9always a dangerous proposition) and argue the Sheridan changed a great deal over the course of the series. Further, I would say that the changes he underwent were fundamental to the development of the series.

Sheridan comes in as a combat leader with an undercover mission that he is extremely uncomfortable about, because it smacks of politics and he HATES politics.

He ends as the consumate politician, able to bend perception to what he wants it to be - the very position he despised at the start.

We se Sheridan slowly evolve from the straight-shooting, "tell 'em like it is" guy of season two (best epitomized by his proposed speech and the wry "it is the thought that counts" approach to the secretive manipulkator who moved the chess pieces of Franklin and Lyta into position on Mars to castle past the entire Earth defense force. He goes on to adopt a telepath colony in spite of his premonitions that he is making a mistake (and being vindictated in the Teep War) and siding against his wartime buddies in favor of the political decision that the Centauri (who contributed zero ships to his Great Crusade) were, politically, the wrong target for the Alliance's ire.

Sheridan's stance in Seasons 4 and 5 would have astonished Sheridan of early season 2. What better definition of change over time is there?

[Satai Delenn]

ZACK AND CORWIN .

[AmyG]

Doesn't mean that both weren't interesting characters though.

Certainly not. They were both extremely interesting characters. It's just that, IMHO, both characters hit the ground running with a very strong personality that mainly stays intact throughout the course of the series. If you took an excerpt of dialogue from either Sheridan or Franklin (or Garibaldi, for that matter) from any of their first episodes, and one from their _last_, and compared them, you wouldn't detect any discernible difference in the core of their Sheridanness, or their Franklinness, or their Garibaldiness. Stuff happens to them - it happens to _everyone_ in the show - but they come out of it with their core intact and unchanged, their basic philosophy of life unaltered. Who they were is who they are. Not so with Delenn, G'Kar, Londo, Lennier, Vir, and (arguably) Zack.

Aisling

[Stunaep]

Actually, I have to agree with AislingGrey. Sheridan did really grow very little. He was also the most perfect character in the show, which stood out considering, nearly everyone other had human flaws. Thankfully, JMS made him politically inept in season 5, by having him screw up royally twice.

Franklin did go through the whole walkabout process, but after that, basically remained the good old franklin, true.

Doesn't mean that both weren't interesting characters though.

[AmyG]

So, I mentioned Garibaldi in the other thread; the other characters I feel are mainly unchanged over the course of five (or four) seasons are Franklin, and...this is the controversial one, I'm sure...Sheridan.

Discuss!

Aisling