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DVD's with Scandinavian subtexts

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  • Capt.Montoya
    replied
    Originally posted by CRONAN
    Uhhhhh....... Sacrilege.

    I tend to agree with G'kar.

    Only in its original form can B5 be fully appreciated. Anything else is an abomination!
    I also agree... alas, not everyone in this world knows enough English to appreciate B5 in its original form, and I think that even if they get an abomination that doesn't give them the whole experience it's better than having them not experience B5 at all.
    With all this discussion I'm now curious to see the Spanish dubbed (or subtitled?) version... but having seen the original form I think I might just be disappointed and exasperated by it.

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  • chaostaenzer
    replied
    Only in its original form can B5 be fully appreciated. Anything else is an abomination!
    No ducking and running required. I totally agree with you.

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  • CRONAN
    replied
    Uhhhhh....... Sacrilege.

    I tend to agree with G'kar.

    Only in its original form can B5 be fully appreciated. Anything else is an abomination!

    ::ducks and runs::

    Leave a comment:


  • Capt.Montoya
    replied
    Some voice actors in Spanish dubbing do a good job also, and I should have mentioned that, but in many cases no matter how good the voice actor, it seems that the dubbing director forces them to be either non-emotional or to overact... Sometimes I'd swear that the actors aren't even allowed to hear and see the original performance because the voice doesn't correspond to the visuals...

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  • chaostaenzer
    replied
    I have to defend the "voice actors" in the dubbed versions. they are pros and are doing a fine job (well, in most cases). Some are better than others, but the main problem remains the translation.
    If the translated dialogue is rather weak you aren't able to sound like reciting Shakespeare.

    It's quite interesting for me to watch some shows I watched dubbed in my teens as reruns in the USA with the original voices.
    That can be even quite funny...

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  • Capt.Montoya
    replied
    I agree chaostaenzer, dubbing is much harder for all you say and what I said before (that the duration of a piece of dialog has to be adjusted to the of the original language).

    Hearing requires less effort than reading so in general a dubbed program is more "comfortable."

    In MÚxico almost everything foreign shown in TV is dubbed too, but there is also a historical reason for that: illiteracy, which is not such a big problem now, but when the Mexican TV network started to import programming they had to make sure that even the non-reading public could watch, and then they just kept doing it.

    It's quite interesting for me to watch some shows I watched dubbed in my teens as reruns in the USA with the original voices.

    The very worst thing, language wise, is that the dubbing was in some "standard" Spanish so that the same dubbing could be shown in all Latin America (language differences similar to, and some much larger than, those between UK, US and Australian English abound)... this meant that many words used in the dubbing have never been part of everyday Spanish, they are understandable but don't sound natural. Even worse, acting wise, the voice "actors" seem to be under orders of favoring enunciation over emotion, so much of the delivery of lines is flat and almost monotone...

    And don't get me started on the dubbing of documentaries from Discovery or other similar channels...

    In the past few years a few cable or satellite channels in MÚxico show US shows with subtitles, theatrical movies on the other hand were rarely dubbed (except for movies that are for children, but more recently there's been choice with some "children" movies like Harry Potter or Shrek shown subtitled in at least a few theaters in the larger cities).

    Indeed once people realize how much better the original are we don't want to go back...

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  • Garamond
    replied
    Originally posted by CRONAN
    Were they now? Very well then, please feel free to point out any B5 DVDs released by the WB with norwegian subtitles. These were the DVDs we were discussing, yes?
    We were indeed discussing the B5-releases. There are two B5 DVDs with norwegian subtitles ("In the beginning" and "The Gathering").

    Hopefully they can push the complete series throught the same channel which made those two "scandinavian-textified" ... or something

    Leave a comment:


  • chaostaenzer
    replied
    The problem is that translation is an art, not only it requires thorough knowledge of the original and the target language, but also knowledge and understanding of cultural clues...
    Thanks for pointing this out CM, but i have to add that dubbing is even more difficult. The problem with dubbing is that you do not only need to translate it correctly, you have to capture the whole mood of a scene and (this is the hardest part) you have to adjust to the motions of the lips and mouth of the speakers. A good dubbed version of a movie/ tv show should always give the impression that it is not dubbed at all. Which is hard to achieve and it is even harder to achieve a perfect translation under this circumstances.

    Here in Germany almost everything gets dubbed; it seems that US americans aren't the only people who are to lazy to read subtitles. Let me say that i have deep respect for all the people who are working in this buisiness, because they try to give us german viewers the most comfortable tv or cinema experience we can get.

    The main problem is: once you realize how much better the originals are, you won't ever, ever going back to the dubbed ones.

    There is an issue a swedish teacher of mine brought up and i think its quite interesting: dubbing (or even redoing a whole movie) has the tendency to destroy the cultural background of a movie/ tv show. Language and the already mentioned cultural clues can be very important to such a product.

    Moreover, and here i'm going to pick up the questions of iamsheridan, there are situations where you can tell that the translators made a terrible job without knowing the original version. It happened to me while watching Futurerama. A whole bunch of names had been translated which made no sense: "Dungeons and Dragons" is also known under that specific name in Germany; same goes to the computer "Deep Blue". These are minor examples. But when they mess up such details it makes one wonder where they mess with the important ones. One could say: Hey, who cares, its just an animated show, its made for children so it is not important(please note that im trying to use irony here). But whoever was responsible for our beloved b5...made a whole lot of mistakes.

    I won't go into detail here. Of course it was possible to follow and understand the show...but it has been harder sometimes. Just one example: In Babylon Squared, when the future-Sinclair takes his helmet off, there is a short dialogue with a woman that can't be seen on the screen. In the original version you could tell from her voice that it is delenn; but they used another actress instead of the regular actress who does Delenn. A nice clue is completly lost.

    And one off the most funniest things was that they used the same narrator for the intro sequences for the seasons 1,2 and 3.

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  • Dr Maturin
    replied
    <<If a Swedish show ever made it to US TV it would be dubbed... it's become a truism that Americans are too lazy to read subtitles.>>

    I don't think it's laziness but rather our arrogance that why watch something in a foreign language when we can simply watch something we understand? There is no shortage of films in English.

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  • Capt.Montoya
    replied
    Originally posted by iamsheridan
    It didn't use to be like this. I know because I a) really liked the translations of B5 for K5 and b) know the person who did them, and SHE says that most channels used Swedish translation agencies, but now uses "high school students" who don't understand the language, haven't seen the series and don't give a duck about it.

    [ ... ]

    BTW, that makes me wonder: When you read a translation, you can see that is bad, and very often what the original was (if you know the original language) and/or what the translation should be. How does that work in countries where they dub? Does it happen often that the dubbers (?) say stuff that actually sounds WRONG in translation?

    /I am Sheridan
    If a Swedish show ever made it to US TV it would be dubbed... it's become a truism that Americans are too lazy to read subtitles.

    That's one reason why many foreign movies are remade Hollywood style instead of trying to expand the subtitle reading audience, some examples: Vanilla Sky (Spanish, Abre los Ojos, Open your Eyes), Just Visiting (French, Les Visteurs, The Visitors), or the recent Criminal (Argentinian, Nueve Reinas, Nine Queens).

    US TV is not very open to showing foreign material, even if it is in English... the failed attempt to make a US version of the UK's Coupling is a recent example.

    As for dubbing that sounds wrong: I won't cite specific examples, but I've heard several from Spanish dubbing of US TV (some dimly remembered from when I still lived in Mexico, others painfully still remembered from what I've watched when I've gone back on vacation). Some phrases you can excuse since there are timing limitations (having a voice extended when the speaker has closed their mouth, because the original language can say some things in a much shorter way, would look too odd), others are just ridiculous and a show of ignorance not only of English but of Spanish itself...
    A funny thing to do if you know Spanish and English is to watch the dubbed version with the English closed captioning displayed...

    The problem is that translation is an art, not only it requires thorough knowledge of the original and the target language, but also knowledge and understanding of cultural clues... however many dubbing and subtitling agencies hire the equivalent of language technicians that do a terrible job.

    There are some exceptions, the dubbing for The Simpsons in Spanish is quite good. They even take care to adapt US culture jokes to the Mexican/Latin American culture.

    It can be much worse for Science Fiction, since that can require also some scientific and technical knowledge... I've seen some mistakes in SF book translations to Spanish that completely misstranslate the scientific parts of the text.

    I consider myself very lucky to not need any translation when it comes to English language.

    P.S. I never watched the Spanish dubbed version of B5, I know it exists, but I started watching the series on the original broadcast, by mid Season 3, when I moved to the USA. I think it might be painful to watch "Babilonia Cinco."
    Last edited by Capt.Montoya; 09-07-2004, 08:42 AM.

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  • rymdgubbe
    replied
    Originally posted by iamsheridan
    It didn't use to be like this. I know because I a) really liked the translations of B5 for K5 and b) know the person who did them, and SHE says that most channels used Swedish translation agencies, but now uses "high school students" who don't understand the language, haven't seen the series and don't give a duck about it.
    Exactly that was my point

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  • iamsheridan
    replied
    Originally posted by rymdgubbe
    I saw some when they were airing. I only have been able to watch Kanal 5 the last two years. The problem with subtitles in Sweden is that only SVT 1, SVT2 and TV4 has good people to translate. Mainly because they are paying enough money for translators to survive on. The other channel is more or less taking people from the street without full knowledge of the language. I would guess that itÆs the same thing with the dvds.
    It didn't use to be like this. I know because I a) really liked the translations of B5 for K5 and b) know the person who did them, and SHE says that most channels used Swedish translation agencies, but now uses "high school students" who don't understand the language, haven't seen the series and don't give a duck about it.

    I had a conversation with the person (Anneli Moe) who is translating American Choppers (Discovery channel) and Corto Maltese (Canal +). She said that translating is more about to have a ôfeelingö about the language. Just to translate word by word is stupid.
    Of course. What's your point? That's often what is bad with a translation, that it is a literal translation instead of a correct one...
    That's what they did on the DVDs. Or if they had done THAT at least. Sometimes they actually changed the wordings for no obvious reason.

    BTW, that makes me wonder: When you read a translation, you can see that is bad, and very often what the original was (if you know the original language) and/or what the translation should be. How does that work in countries where they dub? Does it happen often that the dubbers (?) say stuff that actually sounds WRONG in translation?

    /I am Sheridan

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  • rymdgubbe
    replied
    Originally posted by iamsheridan
    But have you watched them with the Swedish subtitles?
    Instead of using the beautiful and correct translations that were used for the Kanal 5 (Channel 5) broadcast, they have made a new, horrible, horrible translation. Some of the mistakes I can understand if the translators have not actually seen the shows during translation, but some are just weird and stupid.

    Sorry, can't think of any examples right now. I have only watched Infection with subtitles and had it not been so sad it would have ben laugh out funny.

    /I am Sheridan
    I saw some when they were airing. I only have been able to watch Kanal 5 the last two years. The problem with subtitles in Sweden is that only SVT 1, SVT2 and TV4 has good people to translate. Mainly because they are paying enough money for translators to survive on. The other channel is more or less taking people from the street without full knowledge of the language. I would guess that itÆs the same thing with the dvds.
    I had a conversation with the person (Anneli Moe) who is translating American Choppers (Discovery channel) and Corto Maltese (Canal +). She said that translating is more about to have a ôfeelingö about the language. Just to translate word by word is stupid.

    /Magnus
    Last edited by rymdgubbe; 09-07-2004, 01:15 AM.

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  • iamsheridan
    replied
    Originally posted by rymdgubbe
    The two first seasons have been released with Swedish subtitling. Also "In The Beginning".
    /Magnus
    But have you watched them with the Swedish subtitles?
    Instead of using the beautiful and correct translations that were used for the Kanal 5 (Channel 5) broadcast, they have made a new, horrible, horrible translation. Some of the mistakes I can understand if the translators have not actually seen the shows during translation, but some are just weird and stupid.

    Sorry, can't think of any examples right now. I have only watched Infection with subtitles and had it not been so sad it would have ben laugh out funny.

    /I am Sheridan

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  • CRONAN
    replied
    Originally posted by Garamond
    I must arrest you here, because it's a rule that the movies released in Scandinavia (DVD Region 2) contains both swedish, danish and norwegian subtexts. This is done as default on pretty much all of the releases I've seen so far.
    Were they now? Very well then, please feel free to point out any B5 DVDs released by the WB with norwegian subtitles. These were the DVDs we were discussing, yes?
    Last edited by CRONAN; 09-07-2004, 12:27 AM.

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