Have B5 fans . . . well, ever done anything!

[Triple F]

Triple F, check this out.

http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd61/KoshN/B5-Crusade/

I just uploaded all the images.

That was interesting, and pretty cool.


As for letter writing and such.
The kind of things I was curious about was not so much letter writing campaignes, but what fans had done/put together that got a bit of wider attention. Amy and G’Kar’s mask is a good example, as is probably something like Babylon Park, and even the B5/ST parody, Star Wrek. The amount of effort put into things like the PC Game I've found her was pretty impressive as well.

The Ulysses Foundation mentioned by KoshN looked pretty good but seemed to have fizzled out pretty quickly. Things like the (mostly light hearted) Church of Joe is probably best not mentioned in mixed company, especially when you consider things like the Foundationism thing that never took off, thankfully. (I appreciate the need for some to find meaning in a variety of ways but setting jms as potentially another Hubbard is .. . . . . . . you need a bigger range of smilies on here ; ).

[Jan]

While I shudder in horror at the thought of JMS being 'elronned', I can't help but wish that the Foundation document had been released in some form. The one sample that we got, "Never Surrender Dreams" really should be required reading, especially by parents. Triple-F, in case you're not familiar with that one, this is the text:

Never Surrender Dreams

We are born capable of greatness. It's when we allow ourselves to become discouraged, to see ourselves as failures, when we fail to recognize our inherent nobility, that we grow small, and diminish, and ultimately sacrifice our dreams on the altar of more realistic expectations of ourselves.

When that happens, we forget who we are, what we are here for, and what we want to achieve, knowledge that is always within us...until we choose not to remember it any longer because the memory pains us, and because it is easier to settle for less than our dreams demand of us.

Children sing and dance spontaneously, tell stories without fear, reveal their thoughts without inhibition, and reach for what logic tells us should be unattainable. That is who and what we are in our most elemental form. We do, we explore, we ask questions; we pursue our heart's desires, we dream of achieving greatness. But as time passes, we learn fear, we learn to second-guess ourselves, and we learn to suspect our abilities and our desires. We are told that some people tell stories, some people dance, and some people sing, but these things are not for everyone. When we try to express our innermost thoughts, we are told to be quiet, that no one wants to hear what it is we have to say, and that even if they did want to hear it, what we say has no innate value. When we lose the spark of spontaneity that was born inside us, which is our greatest gift, we progressively eliminate the possibility of finding joy and purpose, and inch by inch, our dreams slip away from us.

If we are to be who we are, and what we are; if we are to accomplish great things, then we must learn the heart's most essential rule: NEVER SURRENDER DREAMS.

Jan

[Triple F]

When I was a kid my dad told me that rules are for fools. For long enough I thought he was some kind of bloody anarchist (and I used the statement to - unsuccessfully - justify certain activities ; ), until I realised that he was really referring to the ideas of right and wrong, civility, etc. Only a rather short sighted fool would want a world where you can take what you want or kill what you want – and only a fool needs a rule to tell them that ain’t acceptable, and there's consequences. I imagine it’s more an experience/up bringing kind of thing (rather than a cultural thing), but a lot of what jms says was among the ideas introduced to me while growing up. It’s a big part of why I tend not to join those who view certain aspects of B5 as revolutionary or eye opening. It’s also why I tend to question things ( a lot. ; ) once a subject tweaks my curiosity. But your right, things like that should be required reading from an early age.

[trutter]

When we did the letter writing campaign back between seasons 2-3, where there was a dedicated section on the Official B5 website, and you put the shield logo on your own website, and wrote your LOCAL stations, that was said to be a very important part of B5 coming back for season 3. There was an article in one of the TV rags of the time (but I dont have a copy of it anymore) that was pretty cool.

There are many of us still chasing Shadows trying to keep the show alive in the hearts and minds of past and future fans. I myself am working on a project to reconstruct the main obdome control panel (but alas, ive been working on it for many years and something else always comes up). Id like to take it to conventions and have people take pictures in front of it with a fold-out obdome window in the background or something.

On a past episode of the Babylon Podcast we talked about the lack of B5 related fan produced eps.

I have to admit I was really disappointed with the green-screen Lost Tales though. Even though it was B5, it just wasn't quite right.

[KoshN]

That was interesting, and pretty cool.

I just didn't want it to be forgotten how much work Tim and Heather put into the Save Crusade campaign. Crusade is one of only two shows that I severely miss and wish would be restarted. The other show is Brimstone.

[Triple F]

I realise that this is probably a non starter, due to cost or time (and itÆs most likely been suggested before). But is it possible to have a dedicated web site attached to something like JMSNews, showing the kinds of things trutter mentioned, hold stories like what Amy did, or contain the kinds of information KoshN has just highlighted.

Spending all that time wandering over the internet (putting yon site together), it became apparent that thereÆs not a central site for fan related news and the like û there was lots of small (isolated) groups, or individuals doing something, lots of others asking questions about a wide range of topics relating to the show (and fandom), with lots of imaginative replies. ; ) ThereÆs also a steady trickle of new fans which want to know more about all kinds of things.

JMSnews is a well known long running established forum, thereÆs a lot of knowledge locked in the heads of many of the posters, lots of folk link to it, and thereÆs probably a fair few kicking around who Lurk. Having something like that has the potential to bring the wandering groups of B5 fans together a little bit, and I can see all kinds of benefits coming from something like that.

[trutter]

Theres also a Fan Influences section on the B5 use of the Internet thread on wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylon...f_the_Internet

[Jan]

I realise that this is probably a non starter, due to cost or time (and itÆs most likely been suggested before). But is it possible to have a dedicated web site attached to something like JMSNews, showing the kinds of things trutter mentioned, hold stories like what Amy did, or contain the kinds of information KoshN has just highlighted.

Obviously that's something that would be up DougO but my first reaction is to wonder why? It's all in the past and I've never had any indication that many fans would be interested. As you said, B5 fandom isn't terribly organized. That said, you're certainly welcome to post a note in the Site Support and Suggestions and ask him about doing so.

If the Official Fan Club hadn't been caught up in the Netter Digital bankruptcy, that would probably be the perfect place for this sort of thing.

The website that Sandy Bruckner maintains, The Zocalo Today is a good place for keeping up with what cast and crew are doing now and I believe she's got archives of a lot of the past stuff.

Jan

[Capt.Montoya]

Obviously that's something that would be up DougO but my first reaction is to wonder why?

I would answer that by saying: Because JMSnews is the website which most new fans seem to find, the B5 related site which seems to be most effective at having new (and old) fans register and join the discussions (AFAIK, but I don't frequent the Zocalo Today, though I have visited it in the past I never joined there).
Triple F already said something similar to this (emphasis added).

[...]
JMSnews is a well known long running established forum, thereÆs a lot of knowledge locked in the heads of many of the posters, lots of folk link to it, and thereÆs probably a fair few kicking around who Lurk. Having something like that has the potential to bring the wandering groups of B5 fans together a little bit, and I can see all kinds of benefits coming from something like that.

But of course it's up to DougO whether he wants to have "appendices" to the site, and up to other whether they would take the time to produce such information (Triple F's Babylon 5 Scrolls site is the only new B5 website I know of, and no one else in decades has done anything similar related to B5).

In any event: I think it would be great to have such an archive.

[Triple F]

I think itÆs sometimes easy to forget û with such a mature program and fan base û that newbies donÆt know what the more experienced fans do, and thereÆs really no way for them to find out stuff other than to ask. And not everyone likes doing that.

The way things evolved, a lot of interesting information has been scattered far and wide (much of it appearing in print form or lost on now dead sites). If interest is to continue û and I donÆt know what folks think about that û then the current setup is doing little to encourage it. Any fan base is made up of individuals who have varying interests about the focus of their attention. No disrespect intended (genuinely) but most of what I read was folks reminiscing over why they loved the show or drawing up tables on what order to watch it.

ThereÆs also a lot of wild speculation and some very strange misconception kicking around, which a good central informational site could prevent. My interest is waning, fast. And thatÆs not down to the lack of new shows but the lack of accessible information. I keep wanting to find stuff out, only to find that it may have been covered in one of the official magazines, or appeared in an interview in a 1996 issue of the TV guide.

Personally, IÆd have been happy to expand B5Scrolls, considerably, and into other areas, but, and I ainÆt looking for a fight here - thereÆs a problem. jms has come to so dominate the virtual landscape when it comes to the show that those who could, do little to nothing to put forward information that may contradict something heÆs said or knock a dent in the ôgreat makerö myth. Kind of ironic, and a little sad, especially given the truly unique, HIGHLY co-operative way in which the show was made by a team of inovative and talented artsits, including jms. Which is a big reason why theyÆll never be another.

And before someone feels the need to take a swipe, or point out that opinion is unreasonable. Think about this, how many people here have referenced or quoted some relevant piece of information provided by the contributors to B5Scrolls when taking part in a debate on some forum, or passing comments on a blog or some such. ; ) That site, and the information it contains, will quietly disappear like all the others. ThatÆs why the whole thing (minus the rant ; ) is available as a download, in the hope that the little bit of info I gathered together wonÆt be completely lost to other newbies.

[OmahaStar]

Personally, IÆd have been happy to expand B5Scrolls, considerably, and into other areas, but, and I ainÆt looking for a fight here - thereÆs a problem. jms has come to so dominate the virtual landscape when it comes to the show that those who could, do little to nothing to put forward information that may contradict something heÆs said or knock a dent in the ôgreat makerö myth.

Passive-aggressive much?

And before someone feels the need to take a swipe, or point out that opinion is unreasonable. Think about this, how many people here have referenced or quoted some relevant piece of information provided by the contributors to B5Scrolls when taking part in a debate on some forum, or passing comments on a blog or some such. ; ) That site, and the information it contains, will quietly disappear like all the others. ThatÆs why the whole thing (minus the rant ; ) is available as a download, in the hope that the little bit of info I gathered together wonÆt be completely lost to other newbies.

Oh get down off that cross, honey. Somebody needs the wood.

[Triple F]

Passive-aggressive much?


Oh get down off that cross, honey. Somebody needs the wood.

Thanks for proving the point.

[OmahaStar]

Thanks for proving the point.

Have you ever, in your entire life, had one?

[Jan]

Omaha, back away, okay?

Think about this, how many people here have referenced or quoted some relevant piece of information provided by the contributors to B5Scrolls when taking part in a debate on some forum, or passing comments on a blog or some such. ; ) That site, and the information it contains, will quietly disappear like all the others. ThatÆs why the whole thing (minus the rant ; ) is available as a download, in the hope that the little bit of info I gathered together wonÆt be completely lost to other newbies.

Frankly, it hasn't been around long enough, for a long time it was too hard to read to be bothered with and your oft-commented-upon unfortunate phrasing of...well, practically everything isn't terribly confidence-instilling.

Don't get me wrong, it's got some great information on it and it's interesting and pretty cool to find out tidbits about the show from others that was previously only published in the B5 magazine and a very few other places.

And it's particularly cool that you actually *did* something rather than just complain that 'somebody should do something'.

Face it, most fans are interested in the story and anything else is lagniappe. No, there's no browncoat-equivalent or Trekkie/Trekker-style handle for B5 fans. I don't have any problem with that at all. There's no 'leaders' of B5 fandom and I doubt there ever will be. That doesn't make B5 fans any less than other fandoms.

Jan

[Triple F]

Omaha, back away, okay?
Face it, most fans are interested in the story and anything else is lagniappe. No, there's no browncoat-equivalent or Trekkie/Trekker-style handle for B5 fans. I don't have any problem with that at all. There's no 'leaders' of B5 fandom and I doubt there ever will be. That doesn't make B5 fans any less than other fandoms.
Jan

The story is, without a doubt, the best thing about the show. Especially compared to what was airing in the US at the time, the thing is a freaking marvel.

And your right, itÆs the (written elements of the) story which is the topic of most discussions about the show, itÆs clever thought provoking stuff. Overlooking things like the costume CGI an even the sets and prosthetics isnÆt something unique to B5. Far from it.

One of the things that surprised me, remembering I was relatively new to the net never mind online fan communities, is how that aspect of the story was so often overlooked. I notice than comic fans view the drawings, ink work and colouring as important as the text. Though in television , especially something like B5, the visual/audio elements of the narrative are generally ignored, no matter how important they were to the whole story. Which is doubly strange when you look at the range of interests surrounding movies!!!?