Another Speculation of a B5 Re-boot

[Truth66]

I went for coffee with a buddy of mine yesterday and we were talking about these different shows on television that are only about 12 episodes or so per season.
I speculated that this may be becoming more common because networks and studios are not willing to make commitments to the usual 22 episodes or so per season. There's far two much competition for viewership out their now with countless channels, internet, etc.
Now most of us know that JMS indicated to WB that if they were going to do a re-boot of B5, he wanted a commitment of a full season in advance.
Let's say for the sake of speculation, that WB decided to do only 12 episodes or so per season of a re-boot of B5 and this re-boot would also only go for 5 seasons.
What do people here think that could effectively be taken out of the current B5 storyline to accomadate a re-boot 5 year storyline that is essentially cut in half with only 12 episodes per season, while at the same time developing great story arcs?

[Ninja_Squirrel]

Wow, it's like you're inside my head. I have wondered this exact same thing, except I had the number 13 in mind instead of 12.

I have to get ready for work, so I want to think about this more and come back to it later. But, here are my initial quick thoughts:

• The "universe-building" of season 1 would go twice as fast. Less hand-holding when introducing things like Psi-Corps, Epsilon 3, Earth politics, Sinclair's missing day, etc.
• If there are still two separate equivalents of Sheridan & Sinclair, I think they would be interspersed throughout the first couple seasons. Sheridan would get sprinkled into s1 with his time on Agamemnon somehow being relevant to the coming of the Shadows, and after the hand-off, we'd see some of the ranger training with Sinclair in s2.
• Fewer, if any, stand-alone episodes, such as Exogenesis.
• Perhaps the Mars subplot of s4 would be sped up and/or started earlier.
• The telepath arc of s5 would be sped up or downplayed or maybe scrapped altogether.

[Jonas]

I think it is a mistake to assume that there would be any clear parallels between episodes - we're talking about a reboot, not a remake. It is very likely that what would remain is the themes, concepts and a rough outline of events, not individual episodes or characters (so we might get the story of a war hero, but that's not necessarily the story of Sheridan). Thus the storytelling could be done in a completely different way, for example with a rhythm like that of Rome, which compressed a great deal of story into relatively few episodes.

[valens_shadow]

Truthfully I don't like the idea of the shorter 13 episode series for science fiction. While I think it's a decent idea for drama series that appear on the likes of HBO/Showtime/Fx. I think sci-fi benefits from having longer seasons to develop their universes. Even with shorter seasons I don't think shows are immune to putting out filler episodes. I also think sci-fi benefits by having longer seasons as it allows them to spread the cost of the expensive sets, unique costumes, special effects, CGI, make up/prosthetics etc etc which allows for a few bigger episodes including the finale because they're able to make more smaller character-based stories through the course of a season.

I also don't think 13 episode commitments necessarily make the show more likely to survive. A longer run gives shows more chances to develop an audience, particularly if the studio is patient. Even if it isn't at least if a series gets picked up for the full season and it's good you're talking about at least having 22 episodes of a good cancelled show. While it doesn't sound a lot I would kill for those seven extra episodes of firefly for example, giving us an extra five hours of content.… Or had Crusade had a full series commitment we would be talking about another nine episodes.

[Truth66]

A longer run gives shows more chances to develop an audience, particularly if the studio is patient.

Very good point. The unfortunate thing is that many studios/networks and others aren't patient. They want to see instant results.
I too prefer the idea of a full season going approximately 22 episodes each. I just find it interesting that more and more shows are going 12-13 episodes per season on these specialty channels.
It just dawned on me. Isn't this the norm in Britain with many shows only going 12-13 episodes per season? I seem to recall many of the British shows that I have purchased for my wife in DVD Box sets are that way.

[Jonas]

It just dawned on me. Isn't this the norm in Britain with many shows only going 12-13 episodes per season? I seem to recall many of the British shows that I have purchased for my wife in DVD Box sets are that way.

Yes, absolutely. In some cases, especially with drama, those episodes then have a much stronger sense of continuity and very little emphasis on standalone episodes. Rome is a really good example of that, doing a lot of worldbuilding and creating a powerful arc in just 12 episodes (and 10 in the second season).

These shows have a different rhythm to them, a different structure. It can work really well, especially when it means there is no filler. (BSG might have done well with this kind of format!) I don't think it would necessarily be such a great fit for B5, though.

[Marsden]

One thing I can say is something I read that Isaac Asimov wrote that with science fiction exploring the setting is a big part of the story. Having a drama be 13 episodes shouldn't be too bad because if it's a current time or even a period piece you don't have to explain the setting the action and characters are center stage. With a science fiction story with a whole new universe there is a lot of time spent on the background, setting, and in universe history that just requires more time to be done well.

I was thinking, maybe I was restricting the "re-boot" a bit to much as a rehash. If it was a new show, called Babylon 5, that shows a space station of that same name and has nothing else in common with the original universe, a blank slate otherwise, then I would certainly like to give that a try. In this senario there would be none of the characters from the original and none of the names. There might not even be first ones or younger races or any order vs. chaos story arc. In that kind of situation I wouldn't mind Bruce Boxenlitner being the Earth president or someone else, dispite my earlier displeasure at hearing about that.

More on topic of episodes, I don't know which would be best but I'd certainly prefer 13 quality episodes than 22 episodes with 8 to 10 "clunkers" thrown in to pad out the season. Of course, I'd like a 22 episode season with no duds, but that's a hard thing to find. The only show I think that delivered really is Babylon 5. I know a person could conceivable excise about 5 to 10 episodes per season, more in the first and last and less in the third and fourth, but you could just rip those out and pretend they were never there and not loose the "main" story. But you'd also be cheating yourself some great episodes and JMS taylored it so well that even those extra "Grey 17s" had meaning and really supported and improved the whole thing. Like Exogenesis. This is my least favorite (non season 5) episode. Now, I'm not it's bad or even not good, I enjoy the episode but less then the others. The reason I enjoy it is I like Marcus and I like Stephen and it gives them some good time, especially Marcus. Taking that away really wouldn't hurt any arcs but it diminishes time for characterization. A 13 episode season wouldn't really be able to have that kind of thing, I don't think.

[Jan]

Taking that away really wouldn't hurt any arcs but it diminishes time for characterization. A 13 episode season wouldn't really be able to have that kind of thing, I don't think.

And that in a nutshell is why I groan when people (not here, generally) talk about 'filler' or 'non-arc' episodes being disposable. B5 wouldn't be nearly as good if it were just about the arc - it's about the characters mroe than anything else.

I often use Londo as an example of this. He wouldn't be such a tragic character if we didn't care for him so much. And I don't think I'd care for him nearly as much if it weren't for episodes like "The War Prayer" and "Born to the Purple". Because of those, I want desperately for Londo to redeem himself and cheered every time he tried to escape the darkness.

The telepath arc of s5 would be sped up or downplayed or maybe scrapped altogether.

Hopefully it wouldn't be scrapped. Without the telepath arc, there's no way that Lyta's change from doormat to leader would be believable. I think if it had phased in gradually the way that JMS often did, the telepath arc wouldn't be so hated. It probably wouldn't have hurt to have a few more of the teeps have dialogue, too.

Jan

[lotjx]

If you look at how well Doctor Who has done with 12 to 13 episodes, you can see that would work. One of the major problems with bringing Babylon 5 back is the price. If they can cut the price of the show, it will help. At this point anything to get it on air should be taken into account.

Also who wouldn't say that this reboot or continuation has to be five years long. If anything it can go maybe seven seasons. A few episodes in the show already have season finale fells like Signs&Portents, The fall of Narn, Severed Dreams and Into the Fire are good finale points.

[becket]

The one problem I have with shows that are 12 episodes per season is having to wait about nine months till the next season. Anyone that saw last nights Dexter will know what I'm talking about.

[Marsden]

If you look at how well Doctor Who has done with 12 to 13 episodes, you can see that would work. One of the major problems with bringing Babylon 5 back is the price. If they can cut the price of the show, it will help. At this point anything to get it on air should be taken into account.

Also who wouldn't say that this reboot or continuation has to be five years long. If anything it can go maybe seven seasons. A few episodes in the show already have season finale fells like Signs&Portents, The fall of Narn, Severed Dreams and Into the Fire are good finale points.

That's a good point about Dr. Who, but for a science fiction show it's both very well estabished and many of the settings are Earth (although in different times) and don't really need to be completely explained as they are so rarely revisited and finally the character of The Doctor is such a know it all that he can blurt out something expository and get away with it as an explanation to a companion.

Not that B5 couldn't be done in 13 ep seasons. I'd gladly accept anything at this point now that I've finally got my Crusade DVDs and I'm about halfway through and dreading that this will be the last B5 universe that I'll ever get

[DaveNarn]

Good suggestions, I like what I've been reading
Here's an idea that may be crazy enough to work.

Cut out all the exposition that was common in the original and Mira Furlan did so well.
This is such a niche market so trust that the viewer 'gets it' and move on.

Then create an extension of the show in the form of a website (hey there's an idea!) that not only supports the grey areas some viewers missed, but allows the truly devoted to bask in the back stories.
Website + social media = additional product marketing and sales. Studios are running scared nowadays so use this $$ ploy to perk studio exec interest so this production is possible.

I think JMS was closer than he thought with the interactive TV transmissions featured on ISN.