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  • Jan
    replied
    Originally posted by OmahaStar View Post
    It wasn't Warner Bros, was it? I remember it as being somebody else coming to JMS with a pile of cash, and then it never going anywhere. JMS has the movie rights, not WB.
    Yes and no. The company who optioned the rights (from JMS, that's correct) and commissioned the script weren't able to put together a financing and distribution package on their own. They approached WB and they (WB) weren't interested without Name Stars. In the end, the group who held the option simply couldn't put it together even with an option extension from JMS so the project dead-ended.

    Jan
    Last edited by Jan; 10-12-2011, 01:47 PM.

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  • TurkishZath
    replied
    Originally posted by OmahaStar View Post
    It wasn't Warner Bros, was it? I remember it as being somebody else coming to JMS with a pile of cash, and then it never going anywhere. JMS has the movie rights, not WB.
    Right and wrong. It was a separate company that came to JMS about it, and optioned the rights from him, but for WB to get behind it (for distribution, promotion and funding etc.) they wanted big name actors rather than the original actors from the show. They made a run at making it work without WB's support but couldn't get it done.

    So we can still blame WB partially for it.

    http://www.jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-17289

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  • OmahaStar
    replied
    Originally posted by qstor View Post
    I was all psyched for Memory of Shadows. Oh well...Damm Warner Brothers.

    Mike
    It wasn't Warner Bros, was it? I remember it as being somebody else coming to JMS with a pile of cash, and then it never going anywhere. JMS has the movie rights, not WB.

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  • qstor
    replied
    I was all psyched for Memory of Shadows. Oh well...Damm Warner Brothers.

    Mike

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  • Jonas
    replied
    Originally posted by Marsden View Post
    I agree. I wasn't offened either.

    I just didn't think it applied to Christianity exclusively because the one person was a Priest.

    Sorry, Jonas, that's what I meant with presumably but I worded it terribly. Sometimes I think I should just stop posting.
    Not a problem. I'm just obsessing about the details because I think JMS was doing something very specific and very impressive with Christian eschatological myth, and I wish that didn't get lost so much in discussions.

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  • Jan
    replied
    Originally posted by Marsden View Post
    Sometimes I think I should just stop posting.
    Nope, sorry...you're not allowed to not post!

    Jan

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  • Marsden
    replied
    Originally posted by Garibaldi's Hair View Post
    This Christian certainly wasn't offended by it ... how can I possibly be offended by an Atheist taking a different view of the situation than I do.

    What I have always liked about the way JMS deals with religious/spiritual issues with B5 is that he acknowledges the possibility of what a Christian would call the "spiritual" dimension to our being and uses SF concepts to explore that in a non-religious way, rather than simply dismissing it out of hand.

    I actually find that (as I did this story) to be respectful, rather than belittling, of my faith.
    I agree. I wasn't offened either.

    I just didn't think it applied to Christianity exclusively because the one person was a Priest.

    Sorry, Jonas, that's what I meant with presumably but I worded it terribly. Sometimes I think I should just stop posting.

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  • I, Zathras
    replied
    Followed by Mind War (I nearly always remember the name's because you bought them two at a time on the good ol VHS tapes!) Dear me they took up a lot of space!

    I just think its a very touching scene that's very well done, and its stuck with me all this time.

    Thanks Jan, knew I could rely on you

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  • Jan
    replied
    Originally posted by I, Zathras View Post
    I can never remember the episode title, but there's always a bit I love about Babylon 5, and its when Sinclair introduces all of the alien ambassadors to the religious beliefs on Earth, and there is an ongoing line of people, each representing a different culture and belief system.
    "The Parliament of Dreams" shown 5th. JMS has said that he wanted to establish that religion was fair game to display and discuss early in the show.

    Jan

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  • I, Zathras
    replied
    I can never remember the episode title, but there's always a bit I love about Babylon 5, and its when Sinclair introduces all of the alien ambassadors to the religious beliefs on Earth, and there is an ongoing line of people, each representing a different culture and belief system.

    I think its stunning, simple and powerful, and shows respect for the multi-cultural nature of humanity.

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  • Garibaldi's Hair
    replied
    Originally posted by Jonas View Post
    I'd understand if Christians were offended by this, but it's depressing that so many people have accused the story of being "Christian propaganda" when it is pretty much the opposite - a story that looks at Christian mythology with sympathy, recognizing its beauty, but also acknowledges that the truth is different, that we will leave much of this behind.
    This Christian certainly wasn't offended by it ... how can I possibly be offended by an Atheist taking a different view of the situation than I do.

    What I have always liked about the way JMS deals with religious/spiritual issues with B5 is that he acknowledges the possibility of what a Christian would call the "spiritual" dimension to our being and uses SF concepts to explore that in a non-religious way, rather than simply dismissing it out of hand.

    I actually find that (as I did this story) to be respectful, rather than belittling, of my faith.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jonas
    replied
    Originally posted by Marsden View Post
    I didn't notice any specifics about Christianity, other than the fact Father Cassidy was presumably a Christian.
    Not presumably - he is very specifically Christian (Catholic, in fact), and the story's ultimate point (as revealed in Lochley's speech at the end) is an inversion of Christian eschatology. The future is not heaven, or the flat Earth of Christ's thousand-year rule, but space; the Earth will burn, and humanity will take its place amongst the stars, leaving our demons (our fear of God, our superstition) behind. Lochley's words are in a sense religious, but the future she predicts is a humanistic one. Someday we will let go of the Earth, and though we will remember it fondly and with heartache, the elements of our old religions will burn even as we continue.

    I'd understand if Christians were offended by this, but it's depressing that so many people have accused the story of being "Christian propaganda" when it is pretty much the opposite - a story that looks at Christian mythology with sympathy, recognizing its beauty, but also acknowledges that the truth is different, that we will leave much of this behind.

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  • Marsden
    replied
    Originally posted by WillieStealAndHow View Post
    And Jan, if I wasn't here and/or listened to the Babylon podcast, I wouldn't have known about the DVD.
    Me, neither. I didn't know about it until I heard about it here. (I don't get the podcast)

    I can see both sides of lotjx and Jonas points. On one hand it's a great discussion of what is alien vs supernatural and a lot of other moral issues, on the other it's three people talking in a room.
    I didn't notice any specifics about Christianity, other than the fact Father Cassidy was presumably a Christian. I enjoyed this particularly because it was the opposite of the same story of the Vorlons pretending to be Angels. JMS never stated there are no Angels but he opened the door to that possiblity. Same here, not saying there are no demons, but that's possible with this story.

    Actually, I enjoyed the story and thought it was good, enjoyed the philosophy and intelligent dialogue. It didn't bother me it was only 3 people but it seemed more like a play than an episode. But it was Lost Tales, the concept was more like little views into what the characters are doing out side of the main story arc, not really the most important points. If that were the case it would have been about the Telepath Crisis or the Drahk War, or a wrap up to Crusade. (BTW, I'd love to see those.)

    Besides, what would really be the difference between a big firey alien with "horns" and a "demon"? It's driver's licence? It says, "Hi, I'm from Hell." That Soldier of Darkness certainly could easily pass for a demon but he was never advertised as such. It's all about the presentation.

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  • Jonas
    replied
    Originally posted by lotjx View Post
    I don't think its about the religion than its not a story worth telling. A demon/alien entity possessing a guy then trying to gain control of the station was a DS9 episode or five. After coming back for a such a long time, there needed to be a story that helped tie some loose ends. A Bester/Garibaldi story, a crusade story. Londo's last meeting with Vir or a story about the station dealing the Drahk. Something instead of throwing a religious story that was basically pointless.
    Pointless? The story is an exploration of themes that permeate the entirety of Babylon 5, and a deeply poetic expression of the humanistic themes of the show. It is not a story about a demon possessing a guy trying to gain control of the station. It is a story about human mythology and faith, taking the old story of the end times and rewriting it as something magnificent and hopeful - a celebration of humanity finding its place among the stars (i.e. everything that Babylon 5 is about).

    If anything, it's insanely ambitious for such a small story: it takes Christianity and turns it upside-down, using its language and imagery to express an entirely different vision of the future.
    Last edited by Jonas; 10-03-2011, 05:07 AM.

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  • lotjx
    replied
    I don't think its about the religion than its not a story worth telling. A demon/alien entity possessing a guy then trying to gain control of the station was a DS9 episode or five. After coming back for a such a long time, there needed to be a story that helped tie some loose ends. A Bester/Garibaldi story, a crusade story. Londo's last meeting with Vir or a story about the station dealing the Drahk. Something instead of throwing a religious story that was basically pointless.

    I am also not that thrilled with the Sheridan one since it makes no sense this kid is around and never discussed during Sleeping in Light. A person living with Sheridan for a year or two is kinda of a big deal. It was just cool to see Sheridan and Galen interact as well as the special effects. As bad as the budget was, the writing was not very compelling at times.

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