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**Ben-Thayer Dunnthaedt** · 09-01-2004, 05:21 PM

Darn you're fast!

I realised that I didn't even come close to saying what I meant to say, and I edited the post........but you beat me to it!

As I said above, you are correct - The Game.

**grumbler** · 09-01-2004, 05:22 PM

Originally posted by Milkman
Ack! You don't like Q either!!! I suppose your going to say the borg were a patheic attempt at including older sci-fi themes of man vs robots and various works on the loss of humanity when diluted with technology.

It may be that, but i think you have forgotten how to enjoying a show for its entertainment value.

No (and while I cropped your reference to how this isn't applicable on a B5 thread, I disagree with the contention that general SF concepts aren't an applicable topic here - but I remain general, using only specific examples).

I like entertaining shows, but maybe my definition of "entertaining" differs. "Q" was not entertaining because he simply was not believable (see how much better the TNG series treated omnipotence in the ep where the E finds the planet with only a single survivor, who attempts to drive them off in his grief over using his omnipotence in a mement of rage).

The Borg I didn't see as a metaphor for all kinds of "man v machine" conflicts but rather as a methaphor for how the charactors react to the seeming inevitable. The Borg are only incidentally machines. They could have just as easily been a parasitic plant form.

**grumbler** · 09-01-2004, 05:25 PM

Originally posted by Ben-Thayer Dunnthaedt
But Grumbler m'man, I have to disagree with your opinion of Q. I always enjoy J. DeLancie's episodes. He has great delivery, well, for me that is.

The actor was fine, maybe even brilliant. It was the absurdity of the role that I cannot stomach. YMMD.

**vacantlook** · 09-01-2004, 07:35 PM

I actually found Troi's character to be much more annoying in her "whiny" episodes.

It's interesting for me. Troi is perhaps my favorite character from TNG, but I too get considerably annoyed at her in her more whiny epsidoes. It would have been great to see more of that part of her character that we got in episodes like the one where she was kidnapped and physically altered into a Romulan and she had to pretend to be some highup Romulan agent or like the one where the Enterprise was damaged severely and she was the highest ranked crew member on the bridge and had to assume command of the ship. I think there was definitely more to her character that could have been explored!

**KoshN** · 09-01-2004, 09:47 PM

Originally posted by Towelmaster
To be really really really honest; I think the best StarTrek was Voyager.... I know I know I know...I will be slaughtered for saying it but still...

Slaughtered, no, but I sooooo don't understand you. Personally, I liked most of TOS and TNG, never thought that DS9* was any good, and found Voyager to be much, much worse. Enterprise? ...well, it's usually tolerable, but then again, I don't expect much from it.

* Gave up on DS9 after Season 5.

As far as I'm concerned, B5's taken the luster off of Trek. Strangely, nothing's come along to take the luster off of B5, and I'm not sure that's even possible.

**Towelmaster** · 09-02-2004, 06:05 AM

Well I saw Voy before B5...

And I don't compare the two as I feel that that would be like comparing pulp-sf to Philip Dick....

I'm just saying that it is still SF and at the recreational level some of that Voy-stuff was quite fun(I really did like Species 8472).

So I am not comparing, I am saying that not all things can be as good as each other, but Voy was most definitely not the worst sf I have seen. (that honour goes to Space:1999... ).

If one wishes to know how much I have gone off StarTrek and on Babylon-5 just ask my girlfriend...

**Dr Maturin** · 09-02-2004, 11:08 AM

<<I think there was definitely more to her character that could have been explored!>>

And I was highly disappointed they discontinued exploring her cleavage after the first season.

**Milkman** · 09-02-2004, 01:24 PM

Originally posted by grumbler
No (and while I cropped your reference to how this isn't applicable on a B5 thread, I disagree with the contention that general SF concepts aren't an applicable topic here - but I remain general, using only specific examples).

I like entertaining shows, but maybe my definition of "entertaining" differs. "Q" was not entertaining because he simply was not believable (see how much better the TNG series treated omnipotence in the ep where the E finds the planet with only a single survivor, who attempts to drive them off in his grief over using his omnipotence in a mement of rage).

The Borg I didn't see as a metaphor for all kinds of "man v machine" conflicts but rather as a methaphor for how the charactors react to the seeming inevitable. The Borg are only incidentally machines. They could have just as easily been a parasitic plant form.

Well crap. How can we have an argument when i agree with what you say!

I did enjoy "Q" but agree that um.. Kevin Oxbridge(sp?) was a good maybe beter portrail of "omnipotence".

And well.. what you just said about the borg was going to be my counter statement.. So... i will just go sit over here....

**Milkman** · 09-02-2004, 01:36 PM

Originally posted by grumbler
The actor was fine, maybe even brilliant. It was the absurdity of the role that I cannot stomach. YMMD.

I enjoyed the role. The "Q" episodes always made me laugh. Also the EU of Q books, well the ones written by Peter David, i find quite enjoyable. But that may just be Peter Davids good writting skills. I haven't read of book of his yet i didn't enjoy.

I do have to say, Delancy(sp?) is a great speaker. Saw him at a convention a while back. What a riot... and really i think he put alot of himself in the Q role... which maybe isn't such a good thing?

**Joseph DeMartino** · 09-02-2004, 03:00 PM

The Borg are only incidentally machines. They could have just as easily been a parasitic plant form.

Or a giant mutant cheese. Oh. Wait. They did that. Never mind...

Regards,

Joe

**KoshN** · 09-03-2004, 09:31 AM

Originally posted by Towelmaster

I'm just saying that it is still SF and at the recreational level some of that Voy-stuff was quite fun(I really did like Species 8472).

Well, Scorpion I & II do comprise what I consider to be 33.33% of "the essential Voyager." It was nice to see the Borg getting their asses handed to themselves by a Vorlonesque (at least, ship-wise) race.

Originally posted by Towelmaster

So I am not comparing, I am saying that not all things can be as good as each other, but Voy was most definitely not the worst sf I have seen. (that honour goes to Space:1999... ).

Never watched much of it. Preferred the prior series "UFO." However, if I was picking a "worst" it wouldn't be "Space: 1999." It'd be "Lexx" or "Black Scorpion."

**NotKosh** · 09-03-2004, 09:31 AM

And Q is the resurrection of what TOS character?

**KoshN** · 09-03-2004, 10:48 AM

Originally posted by NotKosh
And Q is the resurrection of what TOS character?

Trelane?

**Milkman** · 09-03-2004, 04:14 PM

He wasn't resurected. The TOS character went nutts from Q's first attempt at "resurrection"

But i can't remember the characters name now...

**NotKosh** · 09-03-2004, 09:49 PM

Originally posted by KoshN
Trelane?

Correct, The Squire of Gothos

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