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  • Question(as if it hasn't been asked before)_...

    Question(as if it hasn't been asked before) :

    Which character - do you think - grew the most during the series?

    Let's make it easy; as far as I'm concerned it would have been Londo if G'kar hadn't been there...
    "En wat als tijd de helft van echtheid was, was alles dan dubbelsnel verbaal?"

  • #2
    I'll pick one not very obvious and go for Lyta.

    As far as we know, she was a low-to-medium strength commercial teep when we met her, completely loyal to the Corps, and with very little self-image. After her scan of Kosh, she went blip and almost died pursuing the Vorlons, allowing them to alter her both physically and telepathically. At the time she left with G'Kar, she had made progress toward becoming her own person, finally not allowing herself to be used anymore by even her 'friends' on the station. Though some might say that she was brainwashed by Byron, I think he was just the catalyst.

    Hopefully by the time she finished travelling with G'Kar she was less angry although we pretty much know that she was still determined to bring down the Corps.

    Next?

    Jan
    "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

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    • #3
      My vote goes to G'Kar. Heck, my vote goes to G'Kar for any number of things - but definitely for this.



      Aisling

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      • #4
        Since G'Kar is/will be the most frequent answer (and I agree he grew a lot!) I'll put out there a different character for the sake of variety.

        I say Vir changed a whole lot. From the dopey, overwhelmed assistant to the experience-hardened Emperor of the Centauri Republic.

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        • #5
          What about Mr. Garibaldi? Down and out security grunt no one will hire. Chief of security for a high profile Earth installation. Telepathically messed up PI and mole. Traitor of the first degree. Head of Interstellar Alliance security. Washed up drunk. Chief operating office of one of the 10 largest megacorps on Mars. Husband. Father. Cigar chompin' dude!

          And don't even get started on the changes to his hair!
          "That was the law, as set down by Valen. Three castes: worker, religious, warrior."

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          • #6
            What about Mr. Garibaldi? Down and out security grunt no one will hire. Chief of security for a high profile Earth installation. Telepathically messed up PI and mole. Traitor of the first degree. Head of Interstellar Alliance security. Washed up drunk. Chief operating office of one of the 10 largest megacorps on Mars. Husband. Father. Cigar chompin' dude!
            What?

            Garibaldi is one of my top three choices for characters who do not change over the course of the series. Like Franklin, he hits the ground running in the first episode (the pilot, actually), strong personality blazing, and ends up with it intact, just as he started five years before.

            What happened to him because of Bester doesn't count as a change. When the artificially-induced personality change was reversed, he went back to being the same old paranoid, street-smart, alcoholic (in the sense that alcoholics always consider themselves alcoholics, even when they're not drinking), low self-esteem, loyal, lucky screwup he always was.

            IMHO of course, and YMMV.

            Aisling

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            • #7
              <<What happened to him because of Bester doesn't count as a change. When the artificially-induced personality change was reversed, he went back to being the same old paranoid, street-smart, alcoholic (in the sense that alcoholics always consider themselves alcoholics, even when they're not drinking), low self-esteem, loyal, lucky screwup he always was.>>

              I love that guy.
              Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

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              • #8
                Well, really ZHD, that's between you and him!

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                • #9
                  <<Well, really ZHD, that's between you and him!>>

                  Ah, nuts!
                  Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I would argue Zack. He starts as an overweight, balding guy (with a different name, even!) whose idea of strategic thinking is "walking the suspect around the block a few times." He ends up with a better name, more hair, and a lot trimmer, with strategic thinking able enough to guide the Centauri emperor.
                    I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

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                    • #11
                      what are you talking about???


                      As for me it's a tie between G'kar and Londo

                      but as a joke I'll asy Kosh why you ask, just tey to prove otherwise

                      The avalanche has already begun it is to late for the pebbles to vote.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by AislingGrey
                        What?

                        Garibaldi is one of my top three choices for characters who do not change over the course of the series.
                        Looking back, the original question was about growth, and from that point I would agree that his growth was less than others, but I still think he went through a lot of changes. I don't think the telepathically induced changes can be written off completely, either, because they still left their mark and changed his experiences, which in turn shape him.

                        That being said, I would still submit for your consideration that Garibaldi grew a fair amount during the course of the show. In the first season and into the second, he was questioning whether he was right for head of security. When it was just about him taking care of himself, he could be cocky and confident, but as responsibility grew so did his doubts. A series of setbacks fed into this and you see a possibly suicidal Garibaldi early in season two. His lack of confidence wouldn't allow him to marry the woman he loved and that continues well into season 5. The scar of Bester's work leaves him looking for means to prove he still has control.

                        By the end, you see a Garibaldi comfortable with himself and his responsibilities running Edgar Industries, a much larger venue than security chief on B5. He is also married and has a daughter. Certainly, bringing a child into the world is an even bigger responsibility than marrying someone. Maybe not the enlightenment of G'Kar (who, incidentally, I would've actually chosen as experiencing the most growth, except he had already been nominated, and I am a fan of the road less travelled ), but still considerable growth.

                        By the way, a discussion of who grew the least could be interesting. Aisling, maybe you could start us off with your three candidates!
                        "That was the law, as set down by Valen. Three castes: worker, religious, warrior."

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                        • #13
                          How about Lennier? He went through big changes, a complete 180 from how he originally began as a character. Now this doesn't actually qualify as "growth" per se, but his character definitely changed.

                          But this question is a tough one, considering that one of the major selling points for B5 is the fact that ALL the characters went through major changes as the series progressed.

                          Grumbler-

                          Before I reply with "wait, that was Lou, not Zack" I'll guess that you were kidding, right?
                          "The cat is not evil for killing the rat, nor is the rat evil for stealing the grain. Each acts according to its nature." Master Po - Kung Fu:TOS

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                          • #14
                            No contest if you just want who grew the most...

                            G'Kar.

                            Londo is second place IMO, he was already a politician and a patriot, there was development on those traits, but they were already there.

                            About other characters:

                            There was a certain Captain that also grew a lot during the series...

                            And it wasn't my namesake.

                            Among those who grew the least:
                            Morden, he was already set in his ways and his role (a great character nevertheless).
                            Such... is the respect paid to science that the most absurd opinions may become current, provided they are expressed in language, the sound of which recalls some well-known scientific phrase
                            James Clerk Maxwell (1831-79)

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                            • #15
                              As far as Who went through the most Changes, how about Actor Wayne Alexander ??

                              I believe he holds the record for playing the most Different Characters in the series.

                              Wayne Alexander as Sebastian.

                              Wayne Alexander as Lorien.

                              Wayne Alexander as Drazi.

                              Wayne Alexander as Drakh.


                              Wayne Alexander was listed as playing G'Dan. Which one was he?
                              He was the Narn who first met G'Kar on their homeworld; the only one with any lines.

                              JMS
                              I think there were a couple more appearances, also...

                              So, Wayne definitely holds the record for undergoing the most "Changes" during the series.

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