The Great Debate

[Jan]

There are are couple of converstions about the reboot of Babylon 5 in a couple of places so I thought I'd see if we couldn't centralize them and add a poll (just because they're fun).

To recap, JMS told us at Comic-Con that WB had approached him about doing something for an unnamed new distribution system. He told them that he wanted a full season commiment, full creative control and a budget of 2-3 million per episod. WB agreed, pending closing the deal on the new distribution system. Unfortunately, negotiations for that system collapsed and that project is no longer on the table. JMS is in informal talks about doing something else. Most of what he said at Comic-Con about the project can be seen at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34BM_nn-CeA

He expanded on that via Facebook:

Re: B5...the studio offered a full season of a new and rebooted B5 as part of a new distribution venue they were creating (us and several other shows from the same studio were part of the same deal). We'd have a full season, a big... budget, and total creative control. The negotiations (not between us but between the participants of the venue) dragged on for over a year, we were told repeatedly this is going to happen, but finally, the participants couldn't make the math work. So we and the other three shows that they were hoping to put out there got set aside.

At this point, I've told the studio that if this isn't going to move ahead, there's something else they need to consider and there's a very informal negotiation going on now in that regard. We'll see where it goes from there.

But again, B5 was never created to be a Deep Space Franchise, we wanted to do our 5 years and get out clean. That was my intent going into this, and if that's where this ends up, I'm happy to stick with that. There are other film and TV projects I'm doing, including a deal we just concluded to write a pilot for Will Smith's company on a show that's been pretty much pre-sold for a full season overseas (two bidders want it badly for Europe, and now they're just looking for a US partner).

A really good interview with JMS is available here http://fb.me/1a6l1ZAte
where he expands some on what he wanted to accomplish with the reboot and how he wanted to use the original actors. The interview begins about an hour an ten minutes in and JMS talks about the reboot starting at 2:22:19.

So a number of you have already given your thoughts but let's what develops here. I'd love it if folks posted when they vote even if they've posted to another thread.

[Jan]

Somewhat to my own surprise, I've voted Yes. My main reason for doing so is because I've long wanted to see what JMS could do if he was just let go to do as he wanted without restrictions and this could be (could have been) the perfect venue for it. That's a show I'd really like to see.

Face it, he's grown as a writer - heck we saw that growth as B5 progressed and more years have passed. I'd like to see how that growth could enhance the universe that we already love. It won't detract anything from the show we've already got, but it's bound to be different and may end up better.

So, yeah, I'll definitely give a reboot a chance. This isn't much different from what I've said before about being willing to give whatever JMS writes a chance but I long expected to be dead set against any attempt to reboot the show and surprisingly, I'm not.

Next?

Jan

[vakie]

Yes, I agree completely, as I said in the other thread.

[Marsden]

I voted yes.

First, even from a pessimistic view there might be something good in it if the overall project is not.

But from a better angle it could really fill in some of the years between the first year of the Alliance and Sheridan's passing beyond the rim. I love the Centauri Trilogy, that could be happening in the background, in some episodes, or it could be after that's all done and Vir is emperor. If there is any one thing I'd love to see is more of Emperor Vir.

Also, that last final battle against the Drahk with the Centauri fleet and Alliance together that the last book mentions at the end but doesn't show would be a killer jumping off point.

I'd also like to see how Sheridan helps out young Prince Venturi as was established in Lost Tales. It would also be a great place to resolve the Telepath War/plotline as well. And none of these would really need too much of the old cast but they can still be included without it being "artifical" as I mentioned in the other thread I hate when they put someone back together because it's in the script.

[Jonas]

I voted yes.

First, even from a pessimistic view there might be something good in it if the overall project is not.

But from a better angle it could really fill in some of the years between the first year of the Alliance and Sheridan's passing beyond the rim. I love the Centauri Trilogy, that could be happening in the background, in some episodes, or it could be after that's all done and Vir is emperor. If there is any one thing I'd love to see is more of Emperor Vir.

Also, that last final battle against the Drahk with the Centauri fleet and Alliance together that the last book mentions at the end but doesn't show would be a killer jumping off point.

I'd also like to see how Sheridan helps out young Prince Venturi as was established in Lost Tales. It would also be a great place to resolve the Telepath War/plotline as well. And none of these would really need too much of the old cast but they can still be included without it being "artifical" as I mentioned in the other thread I hate when they put someone back together because it's in the script.

But since we're talking about a reboot, there'd be no Vir - not the Vir we know and love, anyway. No Sheridan as played by Bruce Boxleitner, either.

I voted "maybe" but what I really want to say is that while I'd watch it, I think it's not a good idea. I'd rather see JMS do a new sci-fi series than undermine Babylon 5.

[BurbaLinkz]

Hi. I'm new to this forum, though I have lurked a couple of times since B5 ended and a lot in the last month or so in the hope of a new series. With all the chatter of late, its made me want to add my two cents. To the matter of the OP - I voted maybe, as while I completely adore B5, reboots are a bit of a sticking point with me. I feel that they can come off as just being made as they're viewed as a safe financial bet, a way to grab money from the fans without expanding meaningfully (and sometimes showing a lack of respect for) characters and worlds that we've all grown to love. I don't have a problem with "What if" kinda scenarios, like the latest ST movie (in fact I feel they're a big part of sci-fi and fantasy in general), but I don't like them going beyond the 2-3 episodes/films mark. At this point I feel the original stories are being relegated, which is hard to deal with when you've invested a lot emotionally. That being said, I'm so desperate for a new B5, in all likelyhood I'd probably watch it faithfully, which simultaneously throwing a tantrum and cursing everyone involved in making it.

As for all the latest drama (I genuinely don't mean to stir an already bubbling cauldron, but do want to share my opinion), I don't believe JMS mean't to purposely string people along. I think he just let himself get carried away, believing that this opportunity wasn't just another piss-take but was actually going to happen. Naive maybe but not in the realm of cynical spin, which would offend me. Personally, I'm glad it didn't go ahead in the form of this new distribution system, as with the way money is for most people atm, I don't see another expense (in terms of a netflix type thing, if thats what it was to be) pulling in enough people to make it viable. Therefore, potentially leaving the new series being cancelled after just one season.

As for what Jan said about wanting to see something that showcases JMS's growth. I'd also like to see that, but for me a reboot might take away from the original series, unfortunately that is just part of my "glass half empty" view

Basically to sum up, what I'm hoping for is a new series that builds on whats already gone before, and is enough of a success that more tv/straight to dvd movies can be made off its back. Would love to see the telepath/Dilgar wars fleshed out, but don't think either is enough for a series. Also, something where human development doesn't push the actual sci-fi into second place - Stargate Universe I'm looking at you

[Jan]

Hi BurbaLinkz, welcome. Thanks for joining in.

I don't think JMS ever means to string anybody along. When it comes up, it's generally because he's asked the direct question of whether there will be any more B5. It's second nature to him to say as much as he can, as witnessed by his years of answering questions from the fans online.

Jan

[DGTWoodward]

I voted yes.

First, even from a pessimistic view there might be something good in it if the overall project is not.

But from a better angle it could really fill in some of the years between the first year of the Alliance and Sheridan's passing beyond the rim. I love the Centauri Trilogy, that could be happening in the background, in some episodes, or it could be after that's all done and Vir is emperor. If there is any one thing I'd love to see is more of Emperor Vir.

Also, that last final battle against the Drahk with the Centauri fleet and Alliance together that the last book mentions at the end but doesn't show would be a killer jumping off point.

I'd also like to see how Sheridan helps out young Prince Venturi as was established in Lost Tales. It would also be a great place to resolve the Telepath War/plotline as well. And none of these would really need too much of the old cast but they can still be included without it being "artifical" as I mentioned in the other thread I hate when they put someone back together because it's in the script.

I would not have any problems with any of that, but ther is just one problem...

That's all "sequel".

It's not "reboot".

Certainly not the way JMS described it. He clearly said he wants to tell the story again but with more money and better CGI. Oh and with mixing of some of the orginal cast members around, to play different roles. I ask you! After all the years of waiting, I feel that that's like being flicked in the face with a (wet) sandy towel.

I voted 'no' plain and simple.

[David Panzer]

There's plenty of untold stories in the B5 universe that I would like to see be told, either in a new series/miniseries/movie/novels. Retelling the story with a bigger budget and current CGI seems like the easy way out.

I had to vote no.

Besides, if I want the story retold, I pop in the DVDs and watch it again.

[KoshN]

I'm sick to death of reboots. It's different if the original story was crap, like original BSG (Damned near anything would've been an improvement.), but Babylon 5 was a GEM. There's no good reason for a Babylon 5 reboot. JMS should write another story, with the same actors playing the SAME CHARACTERS or playing additional characters like Tim Choate played in Crusade, or CONTINUE CRUSADE with DDK being written out.

I vote No.

[WorkerCaste]

There's a very good chance that I'll give anything that JMS does a shot. I may not stay with it, but I'd certainly check it out. I don't really think a "reboot" is needed, but I guess I have enough faith in JMS that I would assume he has specific ideas for expanding/improving what was done.

By the same token, I'm not ultra invested with new B5 in any form. I'm pretty happy with what I have, although I would like to see a continuation of "Crusade" in just about any form.

[Pedrith]

I was thinking about this reboot issue and it reminded me of the video game Xenogears and Xenosaga. Both games were really well done (except parts of Xenosaga Ep 2) and both games used various story aspects nd yet told two very different, and very well told stories.

And while I would much prefer the money to be spent redoing the cgi so that we could have Babylon5 in HD, I'm not opposed to a reboot. I hope they could get Michael O'Hare back as I thought he was fantastic (not that any of the others were less fantastic).

Oh and for those worried about replacing Gkar, Zathras, or Franklin, perhaps to honor their memory they could be already dead and refered to as important people from history.

David

[Marsden]

I would not have any problems with any of that, but ther is just one problem...

That's all "sequel".

It's not "reboot".

Certainly not the way JMS described it. He clearly said he wants to tell the story again but with more money and better CGI. Oh and with mixing of some of the orginal cast members around, to play different roles. I ask you! After all the years of waiting, I feel that that's like being flicked in the face with a (wet) sandy towel.

I voted 'no' plain and simple.

I didn't see that, I change my vote to maybe. I'd look at it, but I don't have much hope for it.

I'm really starting to warm to the "told our story and get out clean" statement now.



I do wonder who the rights transfer to post JMS. Will there be an "estate" that controls things like the "Terry Nation Estate" dictates what happens to the Daleks?

This may happen some day no matter what, if I'm still alive to see it, I don't know that I'd bother. I think it's assinine to redo something that was perfectly well done the first time.

[KoshN]

I think it's assinine to redo something that was perfectly well done the first time.

Exactly.


Instead, continue the story that was started (13 episodes worth) but NOT finished, Crusade.

[Jan]

I do wonder who the rights transfer to post JMS. Will there be an "estate" that controls things like the "Terry Nation Estate" dictates what happens to the Daleks?

The only rights to B5 that JMS owns are the feature film rights. And while I have no idea what his personal arrangements are, it's pretty well known that all of his copyrights are held by Synthetic Worlds, his corporation. As I understand it from his posts in the past, the rights will remain for the life of the corporation.

Jan