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  • #16
    Originally posted by DGTWoodward View Post
    It would be like assembling all the cast, the camera crew, the grips, the builders, production design crew, both Foundation and Netter Digital FX teams, make-up teams, the people who swept the offices....everyone, and take them into large open field and telling them that you really appreciated all their effort and talent...

    ...whilst simultaneously shitting on them all from a great height.
    Why is that? I sincerely don't understand that reasoning. Nothing that the original actors and crew did is dishonored by a reboot/retelling any more than the original Trek actors and crew were dishonored by the most recent movie. The work they did was nothing short of amazing and nothing can take that away.

    Jan
    "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Jan View Post
      Why is that? I sincerely don't understand that reasoning. Nothing that the original actors and crew did is dishonored by a reboot/retelling any more than the original Trek actors and crew were dishonored by the most recent movie. The work they did was nothing short of amazing and nothing can take that away.

      Jan
      Actually, I thought they were dishonored by the last movie, except Lenny, but he's always been the favorite.
      Last edited by Marsden; 08-03-2011, 08:29 AM.
      "And what kind of head of Security would I be if I let people like me know things that I'm not supposed to know? I mean, I know what I know because I have to know it. And if I don't have to know it, I don't tell me, and I don't let anyone else tell me either. " And I can give you reasonable assurances that the head of Security will not report you for doing so."
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      • #18
        Originally posted by Jan View Post
        Why is that? I sincerely don't understand that reasoning. Nothing that the original actors and crew did is dishonored by a reboot/retelling any more than the original Trek actors and crew were dishonored by the most recent movie. The work they did was nothing short of amazing and nothing can take that away.

        Jan
        (I also think they were dishonoured by that - especially by how it was done, essentially erasing all the stories that had been told and trampling all over the spirit of the original with gleeful jingoism.)

        Telling the story of Babylon 5 again implies that the old version isn't good enough. Yes, the old version is flawed - but it is also a masterpiece full of wonderful moments that cannot simply be repeated. It is those moments, those details, that make Babylon 5 what it is. Babylon 5 isn't just the story of the last of the Babylon stations; it is G'Kar, and Londo, and Sheridan and Delenn and everyone else. And those characters are in turn connected to the actors who played them and helped shape them.

        The story of Babylon 5 has been told. It was told under remarkable circumstances, pretty much unique in the history of US television, by an amazing group of people. Its flaws as well as its strengths are the result of that time and those people, and I think it should be allowed to stand as it is.
        Jonas Kyratzes | Lands of Dream

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Jan View Post
          Why is that? I sincerely don't understand that reasoning. Nothing that the original actors and crew did is dishonored by a reboot/retelling any more than the original Trek actors and crew were dishonored by the most recent movie. The work they did was nothing short of amazing and nothing can take that away.

          Jan
          That’s a difficult question to answer. But by repeating what’s already been done, you don’t create something new. It’s a trend which most folks don’t actually like – if the comments about lack of new sci-fi is anything to go by – yet they accept it. If everyone vetoed every new movie, or television show, that’s a reboot the studios will soon start creating new material. That’s an undeniable fact. But it’s an incredibly simple yet effective step that will most likely never happen. Why is that?

          I also believe that every reboot (apart from showing a lack of imagination and is just a shortcut to finding an audience/market) is essentially saying that the original is somehow flawed or not considered good enough. Sometimes the original was pretty crap, sometimes not.

          If you believe that Babylon 5 is truly a classic, then why would you want it to be replaced. Why would you even entertain the idea. If you genuinely believe it’s unique, and even has some historical value, it’s like saying lets repaint the ceiling of the Sistine chapel to reflect moderns tastes, or because the scale of some of the figures is wrong, or it’s not scientifically accurate! Make it a manga, I like manga who is this Michael Angle guy anyway.

          Yes the original version of B5 will still exist. But going back to the original version of the pilot movie – how easy is it to get hold of that these days , how easy will it be in 10 years from now!! The history behind it – and those involved - is already being rewritten, misrepresented or otherwise lost.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Jan View Post
            Why is that? I sincerely don't understand that reasoning. Nothing that the original actors and crew did is dishonored by a reboot/retelling any more than the original Trek actors and crew were dishonored by the most recent movie. The work they did was nothing short of amazing and nothing can take that away.

            Jan
            From Jonas:
            Telling the story of Babylon 5 again implies that the old version isn't good enough
            Do you really think that no one, from that huge group, is going to think..."Well hang on a minute, why is this happening, what was wrong with our BABYLON 5?"

            Quite apart from the fact that to do it, JMS will have to do the thing he claims to hate...as I mentioned before, he has to press the reset button on B5.

            As far back as I can remember, I personally have heard him always calling such things 'lazy' and 'annoying' and 'counter-productive'. He even says as much again in the recent pod-cast. So then, to start again from scratch, even if it were with the "same characters, same setting, same actors, same start point...different story" approach, he would have to do it.

            It is, sadly, a divisive idea, and in more than one respect.

            It firstly shows a clear divide between your words and your actions, which in itself is bad enough if your initials are JMS, and it is a divisive factor regarding your fan-base. It still the 'early days' reaction to a project that did not actually (and thankfully) materialise...and it has already caused no small amount of division on these forums.

            If we take this forum as generally representative, that was the show he wanted to take to full series, a premise that had already split the fans.

            I am a huge fan of Joe and am pleased to be able to say that I have been lucky enough to meet him on two separate occasions...

            But on this occasion, with this title and all of the history that it has...professionally, he really should have known better.
            Last edited by DGTWoodward; 08-03-2011, 09:56 AM.
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            • #21
              (Hello. I'm new to the forum.)

              Originally posted by Triple F
              ... the Sistine Chapel ...
              The B5/SC analogy is a bit of a stretch IMO but since you mentioned it ...

              It's interesting to recall the controversy surrounding the 1980-94 Sistine Chapel restoration:
              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restora...he_restoration
              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restora...sed_by_critics
              .

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Innominantis View Post
                (Hello. I'm new to the forum.)

                The B5/SC analogy is a bit of a stretch IMO but since you mentioned it ...

                It's interesting to recall the controversy surrounding the 1980-94 Sistine Chapel restoration:
                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restora...he_restoration
                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restora...sed_by_critics
                .
                Why? You donÆt believe that art can take many forms.

                Your also bringing up restoration. In the context of B5 wouldn't that be more appropriate to a discussion about re-doing the CGI or cleaning up the film stock.
                ; )

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                • #23
                  Hi, Innominantis, welcome!

                  Jan
                  "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by DGTWoodward View Post
                    Quite apart from the fact that to do it, JMS will have to do the thing he claims to hate...as I mentioned before, he has to press the reset button on B5.

                    As far back as I can remember, I personally have heard him always calling such things 'lazy' and 'annoying' and 'counter-productive'. He even says as much again in the recent pod-cast. So then, to start again from scratch, even if it were with the "same characters, same setting, same actors, same start point...different story" approach, he would have to do it.
                    IMO, there's a big difference between going back to the status quo every episode and going back and re-telling a story without some of the pitfalls that beset the original. That's no more disrespectful of the original than it would be for an artist to go back and repaint a scene that she'd done previously as a child. Both are worthwhile.

                    Jan
                    "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by vakie View Post
                      And why spend so much time in creating this universe, and then just let it die? It would still be the B5 universe we know. More adventures in it. The choice seems to be the reboot or nothing at all. If that is the case, I'll take the reboot. The B5 universe is too interesting for me to just let it die.

                      There are indeed more stories left to tell than just the 5 year story, and this might be the only way to do those as well.
                      I'd rather have the new stories WITHOUT rebooting/retelling the 5 year arc.
                      RIP Coach Larry Finch
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                      • #26
                        It would be interesting to see the show with Sinclair through to season 5, and becoming Valen at the end, but again its essentially the same story. I think I long for fresh B5, there's so much more that can be done in that universe, and I also think it would be interesting to see a reboot / reimagining as the new actors / producers / directors etc would bring their own magical moments.

                        Also, the stand alone episodes could be different, but still carry arc related material.

                        I'm not saying this is ideal, just thiking aloud as I haven't posted for a while and wanted to get back into it.

                        Personally, I think I'd like something set in the B5 universe, but not going back to do it again from scratch. There's so many years between the end of Season 5 and Sleeping in Light, and the series of novels showed there are other good stories to tell, so they could delve into that and choose stories from that era.

                        Plus, they could explore the universe in more detail. If it was set after Crusade, then you could follow the crew of Excalibur (did they stay together, who lived, where are they now?); Ivanova and the Shadow-tec Earth Force ships could be another avenue to explore; Sheridan and Delenn in the Aliiance etc etc. They could even mention Franklin, G'Kar, Zack et al, and the respective adventures they're each having which would make you feel like you were still following the characters whilst also respecting the memories of the actors themselves.

                        There's so much potential there to continue to expand the universe, look to the future rather than the past. B5 was always about making a new, better future, let a new B5 show reflect that philosophy.
                        I'm a pessimist: that way you're never disappointed but frequently, pleasantly surprised

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Triple F View Post
                          But going back to the original version of the pilot movie û how easy is it to get hold of that these days
                          You can buy it on iTunes; although that might be one of those US-only purchases.

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                          • #28
                            I'd have a really hard time with a reboot as well, because while there were flaws in the original, overall, for me it was done right the first time (I guess for JMS it was not-otherwise why reboot?). And I don't have a reset button in my head, where I can forget what I know about these characters and the station itself, so watching something else would be very distracting. Its like reading a book that you love, that you read over and over, and then 20 years later the author writes another book and says "Sorry, I know you loved that book but I've changed my mind about all of it, lets start over!" Just write a new book, not an old book with an alternate story.

                            I DO understand how doing it NOW, with all the advances in CGI would be really appealing, but I don't understand why it has to be done as a reboot and not just more.

                            That said, would I attempt to watch it? Yes, I'd give it a chance. But I'd go in with the need to be convinced why this would be better. If it isn't better, what is the point?

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                            • #29
                              There's a new post from JMS on Facebook regarding the reboot in the 'Great Debate' thread. Let's continue the conversation there so folks don't have to keep repeating themselves.

                              Jan
                              "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

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                              • #30
                                Quote:
                                Originally Posted by Triple F
                                But going back to the original version of the pilot movie – how easy is it to get hold of that these days
                                How about this, Trip? Don't be fooled, it is the original version of the pilot on DVD and not the TNT Special Edition, despite the same cover as the 'twin feature test disc' that came out first...

                                http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B000...s_ohs_product_
                                http://www.lddb.com/collection.php?a...er=dgtwoodward
                                Yes, I still collect Laserdiscs!!
                                47" Phillips 1080p 46" Samsung 1080p Toshiba HD-30E (2 both Multi Region) PS3-80G 120G BR Multi-Region Maidstone MD-BR-2102 Sky-HD Freesat-HD Pioneer DVL-909 CLD-D925 CLD-2950 (AC3) CLD-D515 CLD S315 Yamaha ADP-1 Meridian 519 Pioneer 609 (DD/DTS) x 2 Speakers & subs Jammo M/S Pioneer Technics Sony Eltax Akai Aiwa

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