Would a new B5 series actually last a few years on television?

[Truth66]

A buddy of mine and I were discussing the other day that Sci Fi on television seems to be dying. Very few shows last longer than two seasons these days, using Stargate Universe as one example.
There hasn't been a new Star Trek series for several years, not to mention no B5 either.
I know that when I ever turn the Space Channel on here in Canada it's dominated by re-runs of various Star Trek series episodes and various Stargate series episodes.
My buddy posted this question on a different forum that he belongs to and someone on that forum may have raised an interesting point. That point was that those who generally watch science fiction are very tech savy which means they watch their favourite shows on their computers and mobile devices, which in turn drives down ratings because ratings are generally based on television viewership. Decreased ratings means decreased revenues, which means decreased length of a series.
So, if there is ever a new Babylon 5 type series, how long would it actually last in this modern reality?

[WorkerCaste]

I think the "tech" aspect could well be a factor. There are a couple of other things that influence it too, in my opinion, so for your consideration:

The vast majority of TV shows fail. Since only a handful of genre shows get made, it makes it less likely that you'll find that rare success. If the failure rate across the board is 19 out of 20, for example, and only 2 genre shows get a green light in a season, on average it takes 10 seasons to get a success. (Not saying those are the numbers -- that would require research and I'm just rambling off the top of my head. )

Also, most of the Sci Fi fans I know enjoy a significant arc in their TV watching. Sci Fi in literature has a reputation for long stories. I know I'm that way, myself. I look for TV shows that have some kind of ongoing story, no matter the type of show. The problem is, those shows, by their very nature, tend to lose audience over time. People are hesitant to jump in the middle, and if something happens that you miss some episodes, then it becomes difficult to get back into it. It is difficult to create a show that has a tight ongoing story, but is till accessible well into the middle. Even if the creators manage to accomplish that difficult goal, potential audience members might not believe it and thus never start watching if they miss the beginning.

[Compound Fracture]

I really don't know if a new B5 type show would last, but I suspect it would. As you noted, there is no sci-fi of any consequence currently being made. Now is the time! Warner Bros. are you listening?

[Ranger 6 and 7/8]

I have been following the PR guy from Syfy Channel on Twitter and he has been pretty good at explaining the problem. For Example with SGU, they had massive audiences to begin with (Stargate Fans carried over). However, because the show had a completely different feel than the 2 previous shows, fan support dried up and the hard core support just wasn┤t enough to convince the execs to continue the show.
The exact same happened with Star Trek when they brought in Enterprise. Even though from the beginning they told the fans that it was going to be completely different than the previous incarnations and that things wouldn┤t make complete sense for the first few seasons that things would start paying off 2-3 seasons in, Fans immediately complained when the first Klingon showed up with ridges and support started drying up from there. The fans just don┤t seem to want changes to an original formula and that tends to be the problem.
Look at the movie industry craze currently. Everything is a reboot...Why? because the majority of movie goers have made it clear with their dollars that they want more of the same and don┤t bring in anything new or different in a franchise or it will flop.
It is going to be really difficult for a new long term series until the industry gets together and figures out a new model to gauge what makes a show successful.

[Jonas]

I have been following the PR guy from Syfy Channel on Twitter and he has been pretty good at explaining the problem. For Example with SGU, they had massive audiences to begin with (Stargate Fans carried over). However, because the show had a completely different feel than the 2 previous shows, fan support dried up and the hard core support just wasn┤t enough to convince the execs to continue the show.

But is it that they'll be making a loss, or that their profits could be bigger if they replaced it with a cheap reality show? There used to be the notion that a good show was worth supporting, even if it didn't make the maximum amount of profit possible...

The exact same happened with Star Trek when they brought in Enterprise. Even though from the beginning they told the fans that it was going to be completely different than the previous incarnations and that things wouldn┤t make complete sense for the first few seasons that things would start paying off 2-3 seasons in, Fans immediately complained when the first Klingon showed up with ridges and support started drying up from there. The fans just don┤t seem to want changes to an original formula and that tends to be the problem.

Also, it was kind of crap. But then, so was Voyager (except for the Doctor - all must love the Doctor or perish!).

Look at the movie industry craze currently. Everything is a reboot...Why? because the majority of movie goers have made it clear with their dollars that they want more of the same and don┤t bring in anything new or different in a franchise or it will flop.

I'm not sure that's true. People are getting more and more fed up with endless sequels, prequels and remakes, and profits aren't exactly at their highest. And even though I didn't think it was the most original thing ever, Inception, which was an original screenplay, grossed a ton of money.

It is going to be really difficult for a new long term series until the industry gets together and figures out a new model to gauge what makes a show successful.

Gauge is the right verb. The problem is that the industry doesn't know what it wants (except maximizing profit) and isn't thinking about sustainability.

On the overall topic of the thread, I'm not sure a new B5 series would last, unless JMS sold out on his principles, which is... slightly unlikely.

[Truth66]

Many interesting points raised. I just went for coffee with my friend again and he had just learned that the new V series is scheduled to be cancelled now. I definitely agree that many sci fi fans now want stories that have arcs. I happen to be one of them which is why I fell for B5 right away. It's another reason why I for one have mentioned a few times on this site that if a B5 motion picture was ever to be made, I'd love it to be a trilogy so that JMS could develop a strong arc or two through the three films.
Today I just saw a commercial on television here in Canada that Global is promoting it's free mobile ap so that people can watch shows that air on Global on their mobile devices. Now if more networks are doing this, does anyone know if commercials are part of the shows airing when these shows air via mobile aps? If so, then this might stabilize some of the revenues that these networks are losing as the world goes more mobile, which could help stabilizing revenues for a particular show thus a series lasting longer than just a year or two.
Having said that, does anyone know if a shows ratings are actually being tracked via being viewed on pc's and mobile devices? In my original post I indicated that I didn't that they were.

[babylonlurker]

Many interesting points raised. I just went for coffee with my friend again and he had just learned that the new V series is scheduled to be cancelled now. I definitely agree that many sci fi fans now want stories that have arcs. I happen to be one of them which is why I fell for B5 right away. It's another reason why I for one have mentioned a few times on this site that if a B5 motion picture was ever to be made, I'd love it to be a trilogy so that JMS could develop a strong arc or two through the three films.
Today I just saw a commercial on television here in Canada that Global is promoting it's free mobile ap so that people can watch shows that air on Global on their mobile devices. Now if more networks are doing this, does anyone know if commercials are part of the shows airing when these shows air via mobile aps? If so, then this might stabilize some of the revenues that these networks are losing as the world goes more mobile, which could help stabilizing revenues for a particular show thus a series lasting longer than just a year or two.
Having said that, does anyone know if a shows ratings are actually being tracked via being viewed on pc's and mobile devices? In my original post I indicated that I didn't that they were.

A trilogy by JMS would make a lot of sense .

Mobile revenue ok - as long as it goes truly global, and not just US- centered, I would most likely be there.

[JoeD80]

Having said that, does anyone know if a shows ratings are actually being tracked via being viewed on pc's and mobile devices?

Nielsen tracks that stuff for the US television market, but I'm not sure exactly how they factor it in.

[vakie]

However, because the show had a completely different feel than the 2 previous shows, fan support dried up and the hard core support just wasn┤t enough to convince the execs to continue the show.

The exact same happened with Star Trek when they brought in Enterprise. Even though from the beginning they told the fans that it was going to be completely different than the previous incarnations and that things wouldn┤t make complete sense for the first few seasons that things would start paying off 2-3 seasons in, Fans immediately complained when the first Klingon showed up with ridges and support started drying up from there. The fans just don┤t seem to want changes to an original formula and that tends to be the problem.

Nah, I'm not really buying this. The real problem was that the first few episodes of SGU were dodgy, with some very boring stuff (like the soap opera stuff on Earth). If they had come out of the gate with the kind of stuff they were doing in season 2, the show would probably still be on. Sure, the different tone probably contributed, but had the episodes been better written and more interesting, the people would've stayed. It got very good towards the end, but those early bad episodes killed it.

Same with Enterprise, the show didn't really get good until season 4, and then it was over. Too little, too late.

[Jonas]

Still, I'm sure those "SGU sucks" campaigns didn't help.

[Andrew_Swallow]

Nah, I'm not really buying this. The real problem was that the first few episodes of SGU were dodgy, with some very boring stuff (like the soap opera stuff on Earth). If they had come out of the gate with the kind of stuff they were doing in season 2, the show would probably still be on. Sure, the different tone probably contributed, but had the episodes been better written and more interesting, the people would've stayed. It got very good towards the end, but those early bad episodes killed it.

Same with Enterprise, the show didn't really get good until season 4, and then it was over. Too little, too late.

The idea that the Sci-Fi (majority male) and soap opera (majority female) audiences are different is something that the executives do not want to believe.

[ILUVJOHNSHERIDAN]

I must be in the minority because being female i love anything SciFi. seems like everything I like gets cancelled and these mindless sitcoms go on forever. I agree that a long lasting scifi series is way over due. BSG spin off is supposedly in the works called Blood and Chrome about the 1st cylon war. hopefully it will be picked up by syfy. also this is just my opinion, but i think a B5 series Continuing after Sheridans death featuring Delenn, David and ranger 1 Ivanova would be interesting. they could incorporate flash backs of Sheridan between lost tales and his death that way Bruce could also be in the series and the Crusade story could be elaborated.

[lotjx]

It depends on what the show is about. I thought for sure, a show about the Rangers would be a can't miss and then we got Legend of the Rangers, *shudder*. I think a new B5 spin-off would last maybe two seasons. If Syfy didn't spend a ton of money on Next Wave, Crusade would have gotten a second season. It really all depends on what the subject matter is, plot and characters.

A show about the beginnings of Starfleet should have never shown Klingons til much later. First Contact, the Prime Directive and a bunch of other rules that are the foundation of the Federation all come out of that disasterous meeting. It is something you build to, not throw it away, because you stupidly think Star Trek doesn't work without Klingons. Its almost as bad as Smallville's ridiculous no flights, no tights. Yeah thats fine in the early days, but fighting Brainaic, Zod, Darkseid and Doomsday, the rules have to go. You can have a show from a franchise that breaks out of formula like DS9 or Frasier, but don't destroy what its built on to make it.

[SmileOfTheShadow]

I'd say it'd depend on the budget of the show. As it was back in the day with how cheaply it was made, it might. I think a lot of the shows that have been cancelled quickly recently have been good concepts, but were poorly executed. B5 was very well executed. I think that makes a difference.

[Commander Raiden]

What I want to know is, a B5 world, post G-Kar, (ie after his demise) I wonder what the Narn would be like now...