The Apocalypse Box.

[NotKosh]

I severely doubt that the Hand will have any role in TMoS. I think that is in his LoTR box, and it will stay there. He has enough stuff that he had developed in his Crusade/TM box, and he will probably want to wrap some of those threads up, or develop them in the hope of followups later. Then there is his Telepath War box...

[AmyG]

Knowing, JMS, the more important The Hand seemed in the pilot, the less likely it was to figure largely in the overall five-year arc.

JMHO, of course.

Aisling

[Dipper]

I was talking about LoTR, and I have followed the rumble about TMoS in detail.


I would like to know what has been speculated and what is fact about The Hand for two reasons:

1. Given JMS' extraordinary talent to tie everything together and the nature of the Apocalypse Box and the Hand (what little info we got from the movie) I'd wouldn't be too surprised to see them connected.

2. Since two major B5 projects of JMS have been shut down I'd expect TMoS to carry some of the story. The Hand seemed a major plot point in the history of B5 universe or JMS was just pulling our chains a bit and the whole series would've been about something completely different from the situation set up in the pilot movie.



I really do hope that we get some conclusions in TMoS about the Hand and the apocalypse box .. or even in the novels.

[colonyearth]

Jan,

I think Dipper was actually talking about LotR. Not everyone has seen it and if they have, they haven't been a part of the many discussions surrounding it about the origins of The Hand.

If this is the case, Dipper, then let me know and I'll try to clue you in to what was said in the past about The Hand and LotR.

All we do know, to add to Jan's mention of JMS setting things up ahead of time, is that JMS has the B5 universe mapped out in detail 1000 years in either direction. So anything that happens in his universe has, is, and will always have already been planned out to be a part of the bigger picture.

The Great Maker knows all.

CE

[Capt.Montoya]

Originally posted by Dipper
I haven't followed the rumble around LoTR, what info has been released on the Hand ?


-Dip

The answer is: not much... it seems to me that "The Hand (of God)" was just background in the LoTR pilot film, to be expanded in the (never commissioned) series. Some say it may be the Thirdspace aliens, others suggest that the Galaxy is too vast to assume that the First Ones were the only ancient races, and the Hand may have been their equivalent from the antipodal spiral arm.
I suspect JMS named it "the Hand" to thwart attempts at searching more info about it in the post archive.

You didn't miss much by not following the rumble around LoTR, but if you didn't watch it you did miss on something.

In the end the Hand is as mysterious as the Apocalypse Box, except that I don't think there are six hands...
(Or maybe they were dodecalimbed aliens and also had six feet?)

[Jan]

Originally posted by Dipper
I haven't followed the rumble around LoTR, what info has been released on the Hand ?


-Dip

LoTR? That was on TV a couple of years ago. You mean TMoS, maybe? Nothing official at all. From thnings JMS has hinted we know that it's a theatrical release and that there may be elements of Crusade and Techno-Mages. No mention of the Hand at all in relation to TMoS from JMS. Some speculation among posters is all.

Jan

[Dipper]

I haven't followed the rumble around LoTR, what info has been released on the Hand ?


-Dip

[Jan]

Originally posted by Dipper
Could this have something to do with the "Hand", introduced in Legend of the Rangers?


-Dip

Who can say? JMS has been known to set things up as much as 5 years ahead.

Jan

[Dipper]

Well, that rules out the Soul hunters .. damn .. all my dreams torn asunder )


Could this have something to do with the "Hand", introduced in Legend of the Rangers?


-Dip

[NotKosh]

From the Crusade Writers Guide

THE APOCALYPSE BOX

Their existence is little more than a rumor. According to those strories, there are only six such boxes in existence. And everyone who has ever owned one... has died under mysterious and, usually, hideous circumstances.

No one knows how old the apocalypse boxes are some say hundreds of years, some say thousands, some say that they are as old as the universe itself. And there is something living inside an apocalypse box... something as old as the box itself...something that can answer your questions. Most of the time it will answer you truthfully. From time to time, it will lie to you.

You have to decide when to believe it, and when not to believe it, because your life may depend on the choice you make.

Gideon has an apocalypse box. He won it during a poker tgame (won it too easily, in fact he was set up by someone who wanted to get rid of it, and by someone else who wanted him to have it).

Whatever lives in the box, it does not think like us, and its agendas are completely unkown.

If our resident techno-mage knew he had one of these boxes, he'd grab it and throw it out the nearest airlock, then run like hell. That's how dangerous and unpredictable these things are.

[Joseph DeMartino]

Remember that this artificat is referred to by everyone who mentions it as an Apocalypse Box. There are more of them. Also JMS has said that Galen would be very upset if he knew Matthew Gideon. So the technomages know something about them.

I don't think they are anything so obvious as Shadow, Vorlon or Soul Hunter technology. I think JMS had something else in mind - especially with the box gradually taking on characteristics of Gideon. Also it betrays and kills one owner to go off with another - rather like the One Ring. Interesting, huh?

Regards,

Joe

[Dipper]

I've always considered the box to be some holy artifact of the Soul Hunters. It has some of the same properties as the glass balls that held the souls. As a guess it is the first soul ever captured by the soul hunters and the soul has gotten bitter and is trying to live his/hers life through the people possessing the box. I base this on the fact that there has been no indication for the box to have a masterplan which in my book rules out the Shadows and the Vorlons. But as the show only consists of 13 eps, we can't know if it has a masterplan or not.

I think it was said in one of the eps that the box lies. Now, if it did have clear plan, I think it would logically and methodically drive towards that goal and lying about it wouldn't do much good, unless it would know that Gideon would die on some planet etc etc.

Still I get the feeling it is a bit too arbitary to be a creation of the Vorlons or the Shadows.


Now that I've collected my thoughts to this message ... I don't have a clue what it could be )

Stupid box.

[AmyG]

Oh, yeah. I always forget the bit about the box later talking in Gideon's own voice. Having just reread the Techno-mage trilogy, I have a thought on that. I'll post it invisibly for those who haven't yet read it:

Maybe the box is leftover Shadow tech; specifically, something like a mage's chrysalis. If the box were like a chrysalis, and had some of Gideon's DNA associated with it, it might eventually become like an additional limb, a part of him. Hence, it would eventually acquire his voice. Just a silly thought, probably...

Aisling

[AaronB]

Originally posted by vacantlook
The limited thought I have given toward the apocalypse box makes me really wish Crusade hadn't been treated the way TNT did treat it and had been allowed to develop into the great story it would have. But I do recognize jms's declining health (both physical and mental) that was at a peak at the time, and I see that had Crusade not taken the course it did (aka been cancelled), I find myself concerned that jms's health would have deminished further than it did. I do hope he is eventually able to revist the story in some medium be it film, television, or novel. [/B]

The upcoming feature film (TMoS) will have some aspects of Crusade (Technomages, iirc). How much however is something that we will just have to wait and see.

[vacantlook]

I have to say that all this is interesting and fun to read. The apocalypse box is one of the things about Crusade that I haven't given too much thought toward. I know of its existance and influence on on Gideon, but it's not something I've been able to think about much (especially considering my limited experience of Crusade episodes).

The limited thought I have given toward the apocalypse box makes me really wish Crusade hadn't been treated the way TNT did treat it and had been allowed to develop into the great story it would have. But I do recognize jms's declining health (both physical and mental) that was at a peak at the time, and I see that had Crusade not taken the course it did (aka been cancelled), I find myself concerned that jms's health would have deminished further than it did. I do hope he is eventually able to revist the story in some medium be it film, television, or novel.