The Apocalypse Box.

[Jan]

Originally posted by Dipper
I haven't followed the rumble around LoTR, what info has been released on the Hand ?


-Dip

LoTR? That was on TV a couple of years ago. You mean TMoS, maybe? Nothing official at all. From thnings JMS has hinted we know that it's a theatrical release and that there may be elements of Crusade and Techno-Mages. No mention of the Hand at all in relation to TMoS from JMS. Some speculation among posters is all.

Jan

[Capt.Montoya]

Originally posted by Dipper
I haven't followed the rumble around LoTR, what info has been released on the Hand ?


-Dip

The answer is: not much... it seems to me that "The Hand (of God)" was just background in the LoTR pilot film, to be expanded in the (never commissioned) series. Some say it may be the Thirdspace aliens, others suggest that the Galaxy is too vast to assume that the First Ones were the only ancient races, and the Hand may have been their equivalent from the antipodal spiral arm.
I suspect JMS named it "the Hand" to thwart attempts at searching more info about it in the post archive.

You didn't miss much by not following the rumble around LoTR, but if you didn't watch it you did miss on something.

In the end the Hand is as mysterious as the Apocalypse Box, except that I don't think there are six hands...
(Or maybe they were dodecalimbed aliens and also had six feet?)

[colonyearth]

Jan,

I think Dipper was actually talking about LotR. Not everyone has seen it and if they have, they haven't been a part of the many discussions surrounding it about the origins of The Hand.

If this is the case, Dipper, then let me know and I'll try to clue you in to what was said in the past about The Hand and LotR.

All we do know, to add to Jan's mention of JMS setting things up ahead of time, is that JMS has the B5 universe mapped out in detail 1000 years in either direction. So anything that happens in his universe has, is, and will always have already been planned out to be a part of the bigger picture.

The Great Maker knows all.

CE

[Dipper]

I was talking about LoTR, and I have followed the rumble about TMoS in detail.


I would like to know what has been speculated and what is fact about The Hand for two reasons:

1. Given JMS' extraordinary talent to tie everything together and the nature of the Apocalypse Box and the Hand (what little info we got from the movie) I'd wouldn't be too surprised to see them connected.

2. Since two major B5 projects of JMS have been shut down I'd expect TMoS to carry some of the story. The Hand seemed a major plot point in the history of B5 universe or JMS was just pulling our chains a bit and the whole series would've been about something completely different from the situation set up in the pilot movie.



I really do hope that we get some conclusions in TMoS about the Hand and the apocalypse box .. or even in the novels.

[AmyG]

Knowing, JMS, the more important The Hand seemed in the pilot, the less likely it was to figure largely in the overall five-year arc.

JMHO, of course.

Aisling

[NotKosh]

I severely doubt that the Hand will have any role in TMoS. I think that is in his LoTR box, and it will stay there. He has enough stuff that he had developed in his Crusade/TM box, and he will probably want to wrap some of those threads up, or develop them in the hope of followups later. Then there is his Telepath War box...

[Dipper]

But how would Telepaths be linked in the movie title "The memory of the Shadows" ? If it was The legacy/memory of the Vorlons I'd understand, but it's quite the opposite.


-Dip

[AmyG]

You could argue, with that logic, that a film of that title shouldn't contain any humans either - except for humans who were influenced by the Shadows.

Don't feel that the name of the film is going to limit it that much. JMS managed to work telepaths into the Shadow War, so I'm sure he can work them into something called The Memory of Shadows.

Aisling

[circularREASON]

I dont think Telepaths will have anything to do with TMoS.

Left over Shadow tech, Conspiricies by Earthgov in regards to their secret development of shadowtech, and the left over shadow allies (including the Technomages ) should figure heavily though.

IMHO

on another note......

What I am looking forward to is the LOOK of the film.
The visuals in TMoS should be amazing. Personally I can't wait to see what either WETAdigital or ILM ( if they get the nod for the SFX ) do with Babylon 5 herself....

[Andrew_Swallow]

The Shadows bribed their way into control of Psi Corps. This was mentioned in the third Psi Corps book. I think in episode ZÆhaÆdum Justin talked about the Shadows using President Clarke to neutralise the human telepaths.

Consequently Psi Corps has connections to both the Vorlons and the Shadows. Until removed the corrupt officials will still be in charge.

[Dipper]

I think you're thinking it a bit too small. The Vorlons CREATED the telepaths, Shadows merely tried to get rid of them.

Return of the TMs could do for a nice film.


-Dip

[frulad]

Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino
Matheson was the other character who knew about the A-box. I know JMS spilled that somewhere or other, though I can't recall if it figures in one of the unfilmed scripts, a usenet post, interview or transcript of a con appearance.

Regards,

Joe

Wasn't Matheson's knowledge of the A-box somehow connected to his nervousness over his psi-corps scanning? Can't remember the episode and a quick run through the Lurker's Guide wasn't helpful...

[Dipper]

I think the episode you're after is the Well of Forever, but I don't recall any hint that would've suggested that Matheson knew anything about the Box.


-Dip

[Lurkio]

Which episode was it where Gideon found a playing card (Ace of Spades) secreted with the box? Doesn't that seem to imply Dureena knows? Who else could get access so easily to something that is well hidden? I doubt it would be Galen as he'd be more likely to throw it out the airlock as someone else mentioned.

[Capt.Montoya]

The card may be related to how he won the Apocalypse Box... This was posted above

Gideon has an apocalypse box. He won it during a poker tgame (won it too easily, in fact he was set up by someone who wanted to get rid of it, and by someone else who wanted him to have it).

I had forgotten that Gideon found a card and never connected it to the poker game. I'm almost sure that would have played a part later on, as Gideon realized that connection...

It's incredible how many small things were there that rewatching with hindsight could have revealed to be important had the series been a success.

I've become convinced that TMoS will have to do with Technomages and their Shadow Tech... and it will feature telepaths too, which may pave the way for a Telepath War movie in the future.