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**Jan** · 08-20-2004, 10:26 AM

That's an interesting observation about the box and the soul globe. Considering that the voice from the box was supposed to be (become?) Gideon's own voice....hmmm. It would also explain the box not knowing recent history.

What I always wondered about was that the new owner had to freely accept it in order for the previous holder to be free. And that it even seemed that the previous owner knew he'd be dying once he got rid of the box.

I don't recall any clues about the box from the 3 unproduced scripts but it's been some time since I've read them. Gee, what a hardship, I'll just have to go back and read them again!

Jan

**WalkingEagle** · 08-20-2004, 01:05 PM

Never saw the series. How many episodes were completed?

**Jan** · 08-20-2004, 01:30 PM

Originally posted by WalkingEagle
Never saw the series. How many episodes were completed?

13 episodes were filmed but 3 more scripts had been completed. Two were by JMS and one by Fiona Avery.

Jan

**Capt.Montoya** · 08-20-2004, 01:38 PM

The 13 eps of Crusade plus the three unproduced scripts hinted at what could have been a good series, if only the audiences of TNT and B5 had overlapped better...

I've seen speculation that the Apocalypse Box was either leftover Shadow Tech or a Vorlon artifact.

I think it was a Shadow artifact, hence the Box wanting to be kept secret especially from Galen, the unproduced scripts hinted that Galen would discover it eventually, as he started to have stronger suspicions.

There are few posts on that...

>To me it seemed like the exact opposite - something that Gideon would
>pay dearly for down the road. He was more or less cheating at life,
>among other things using the advantage he gained to advance quickly in
>Earth Force in spite of his insubordinate nature.

Yup. Bigtime.

jms

http://jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-293

"Things change...long time gone."

And in later instances when the box talks, it's Gideon's/Gary's
voice. You may take that as foreshadowing if you wish.

http://jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-1105

>As it is, there are a few conflicts in its current
>placing-Gideon describing Max as having been chosen by IPX to give to them,

Actually, my thought there was that that's what Gideon would *always* tell him,
because the last thing in the world he'd ever do is tell Max that he WANTED him
on board. He'd be totally insufferable.

Our captain lies from time to time. Same as the box.

http://jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-755

The Lurker's Guide has bit more:

Also, no one else on the crew knows about the box. Well, officially. One other person knows about it, but he's not supposed to know. And Galen suspects something amiss from his passing comment at the end of the ep.

"Do we find out who this is in the remaining four (*sniff*) episodes? And if not, can you give us a little hint?"

Nope.

(From Racing the Night, where Gideon used the box to find info about the planet visited)

The Lurker's Guide has the important comment that Apocalypse has the original meaning of revelation, only by its use in that book of the Bible it became associated with the end of the world.

I think that the other crew member knowing would have been Matheson (but not by telepathic means) or Dureena... I still have a faint hope we would know one day.

**Joseph DeMartino** · 08-20-2004, 03:36 PM

Matheson was the other character who knew about the A-box. I know JMS spilled that somewhere or other, though I can't recall if it figures in one of the unfilmed scripts, a usenet post, interview or transcript of a con appearance.

Regards,

Joe

**vacantlook** · 08-20-2004, 10:11 PM

I have to say that all this is interesting and fun to read. The apocalypse box is one of the things about Crusade that I haven't given too much thought toward. I know of its existance and influence on on Gideon, but it's not something I've been able to think about much (especially considering my limited experience of Crusade episodes).

The limited thought I have given toward the apocalypse box makes me really wish Crusade hadn't been treated the way TNT did treat it and had been allowed to develop into the great story it would have. But I do recognize jms's declining health (both physical and mental) that was at a peak at the time, and I see that had Crusade not taken the course it did (aka been cancelled), I find myself concerned that jms's health would have deminished further than it did. I do hope he is eventually able to revist the story in some medium be it film, television, or novel.

**AaronB** · 08-22-2004, 04:52 AM

Originally posted by vacantlook
The limited thought I have given toward the apocalypse box makes me really wish Crusade hadn't been treated the way TNT did treat it and had been allowed to develop into the great story it would have. But I do recognize jms's declining health (both physical and mental) that was at a peak at the time, and I see that had Crusade not taken the course it did (aka been cancelled), I find myself concerned that jms's health would have deminished further than it did. I do hope he is eventually able to revist the story in some medium be it film, television, or novel. [/B]

The upcoming feature film (TMoS) will have some aspects of Crusade (Technomages, iirc). How much however is something that we will just have to wait and see.

**AmyG** · 08-22-2004, 06:18 PM

Oh, yeah. I always forget the bit about the box later talking in Gideon's own voice. Having just reread the Techno-mage trilogy, I have a thought on that. I'll post it invisibly for those who haven't yet read it:

Maybe the box is leftover Shadow tech; specifically, something like a mage's chrysalis. If the box were like a chrysalis, and had some of Gideon's DNA associated with it, it might eventually become like an additional limb, a part of him. Hence, it would eventually acquire his voice. Just a silly thought, probably...

Aisling

**Dipper** · 08-23-2004, 02:39 AM

I've always considered the box to be some holy artifact of the Soul Hunters. It has some of the same properties as the glass balls that held the souls. As a guess it is the first soul ever captured by the soul hunters and the soul has gotten bitter and is trying to live his/hers life through the people possessing the box. I base this on the fact that there has been no indication for the box to have a masterplan which in my book rules out the Shadows and the Vorlons. But as the show only consists of 13 eps, we can't know if it has a masterplan or not.

I think it was said in one of the eps that the box lies. Now, if it did have clear plan, I think it would logically and methodically drive towards that goal and lying about it wouldn't do much good, unless it would know that Gideon would die on some planet etc etc.

Still I get the feeling it is a bit too arbitary to be a creation of the Vorlons or the Shadows.

Now that I've collected my thoughts to this message ... I don't have a clue what it could be

)

Stupid box.

**Joseph DeMartino** · 08-23-2004, 07:34 PM

Remember that this artificat is referred to by everyone who mentions it as an Apocalypse Box. There are more of them. Also JMS has said that Galen would be very upset if he knew Matthew Gideon. So the technomages know something about them.

I don't think they are anything so obvious as Shadow, Vorlon or Soul Hunter technology. I think JMS had something else in mind - especially with the box gradually taking on characteristics of Gideon. Also it betrays and kills one owner to go off with another - rather like the One Ring. Interesting, huh?

Regards,

Joe

**NotKosh** · 08-23-2004, 10:37 PM

From the Crusade Writers Guide

THE APOCALYPSE BOX

Their existence is little more than a rumor. According to those strories, there are only six such boxes in existence. And everyone who has ever owned one... has died under mysterious and, usually, hideous circumstances.

No one knows how old the apocalypse boxes are some say hundreds of years, some say thousands, some say that they are as old as the universe itself. And there is something living inside an apocalypse box... something as old as the box itself...something that can answer your questions. Most of the time it will answer you truthfully. From time to time, it will lie to you.

You have to decide when to believe it, and when not to believe it, because your life may depend on the choice you make.

Gideon has an apocalypse box. He won it during a poker tgame (won it too easily, in fact he was set up by someone who wanted to get rid of it, and by someone else who wanted him to have it).

Whatever lives in the box, it does not think like us, and its agendas are completely unkown.

If our resident techno-mage knew he had one of these boxes, he'd grab it and throw it out the nearest airlock, then run like hell. That's how dangerous and unpredictable these things are.

**Dipper** · 08-24-2004, 06:26 AM

Well, that rules out the Soul hunters .. damn .. all my dreams torn asunder

)

Could this have something to do with the "Hand", introduced in Legend of the Rangers?

-Dip

**Jan** · 08-24-2004, 06:57 AM

Originally posted by Dipper
Could this have something to do with the "Hand", introduced in Legend of the Rangers?

-Dip

Who can say? JMS has been known to set things up as much as 5 years ahead.

Jan

**Dipper** · 08-24-2004, 07:46 AM

I haven't followed the rumble around LoTR, what info has been released on the Hand ?

-Dip

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The Apocalypse Box.

The Apocalypse Box.

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