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  • Question about a few B5 Characters.

    First off, I'm new here and I'd like to say Hello to everyone.

    I tried searching for the answer to my question but didn't find anything. Hopefully someone may be able to at least shed some light on things.

    Why do Sheridan and Delenn behave so strangely?

    I absolutely love the show and own the whole thing on DVD. That said, perhaps some constructive criticism of some of the characters might be helpful to JMS in any future projects occurring in the B5 universe. The Characters are all very well written, and most of them develop quite nicely over the 5 seasons. Two seem to have had problems in their personality development. Fatal flaws if you will. Those two characters are Sheridan and Delenn. Sheridan seems to only have two states of behavior. He is either acting very reserved or he is displaying hostility. I know that there are some actual people who act like that but they're few and far between. They almost never get the kind of respect and friendship that Sheridan did. Delenn somehow goes from being slightly mysterious and quite wise to being really over dramatic where Sheridan is concerned. After having watched seasons 4 and 5 a few times, I almost laugh at the unnecessary cuts to Delenn where she whispers Sheridans name during a crucial action scene. I apologize if this seems harsh. That's not my intent. I just wanted to share my observations.

  • #2
    Hello, Trimotor, welcome.

    Before I talk about your points, I need to point out that JMS doesn't post here or even read here so no criticism posted here will reach him.

    That said, without actual examples of what you mean, it's hard to respond. One thing of note, though is that you said:

    After having watched seasons 4 and 5 a few times, I almost laugh at the unnecessary cuts to Delenn where she whispers Sheridans name during a crucial action scene.
    I think you're missing a key point - when Delenn is aware of Sheridan's danger, it's not a matter of simple dramatics, it's because she's got a slight telepathic connection to him. If she didn't, it's unlikely she'd be murmuring his name at a particular moment from light years away. Nor would she have known when Sheridan died, as was made clear when she hugged his pillow in pain just as he went 'beyond the rim'.

    I'm not able to see your point when it comes to Sheridan so any examples you'd care to point out would be welcome.

    Jan
    "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by trimotor View Post
      seem to have had problems in their personality development. Fatal flaws if you will...............
      ..........Delenn somehow goes from being slightly mysterious and quite wise to being really over dramatic where Sheridan is concerned.
      Fatal flaws? or deliberately written changes in her behaviour?
      Personally, I would think changing your entire being into a new hybrid alien species, would play havok on your emotions.
      Clearly Minbari emotions are more restrained, so imagine waking up one day with totally new human feelings and emotions to deal with.

      Sheridan, on the other hand, seemed pretty consistent to me.
      *Den-Sha*

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      • #4
        Sheridan's short fuse is quite apparent in how he tries to deal with Garibaldi during the civil war. He starts out reasonable in his first couple of conversations with him after Garibaldi resigned, then becomes upset and almost hostile way to easily for someone in his position. When Franklin tells Sheridan about his promotion and that he'll be leaving, Sheridan's reaction is hostile. Being upset is one thing, but he was genuinely angry at Franklin for having made the decision to accept the new job.

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        • #5
          I do agree about Sheridan's hostility towards Garibaldi. It seemed a little out of character to me too. However, I put it down to JMS wanting to show us that Sheridan had, indeed, changed since returning from Za'Ha'dum. He was definately a little colder and harder. This, I think, was quite deliberate.
          *Den-Sha*

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          • #6
            Originally posted by trimotor View Post
            Sheridan's short fuse is quite apparent in how he tries to deal with Garibaldi during the civil war. He starts out reasonable in his first couple of conversations with him after Garibaldi resigned, then becomes upset and almost hostile way to easily for someone in his position.
            I don't disagree with this but Sheridan made a good point when he accused Garibaldi of giving aid and comfort to the enemy by giving the ISN interview that he did. It's clear to see that both men came back from their ordeals very changed men. Even before that, I think that Sheridan would react badly to what he would see as disloyalty.

            When Franklin tells Sheridan about his promotion and that he'll be leaving, Sheridan's reaction is hostile. Being upset is one thing, but he was genuinely angry at Franklin for having made the decision to accept the new job.
            While I agree that he was gruff, I don't think Sheridan was angry. What you saw was the reaction of a man who's taken on a job he's had no training or preparation for learning that he's about to lose a key cabinet member. Naturally, there's a moment of panic but he does recover and wish Franklin well.

            Originally posted by Bonehead View Post
            I do agree about Sheridan's hostility towards Garibaldi. It seemed a little out of character to me too. However, I put it down to JMS wanting to show us that Sheridan had, indeed, changed since returning from Za'Ha'dum. He was definately a little colder and harder. This, I think, was quite deliberate.
            He'd accepted his death at Z'ha'dum and resigned himself to the fight going on without him. But when he came back, he must have realized that if he was going to do the job, he was going to have to be somewhat ruthless in order to end it quickly and with as little loss of life on both sides as possible. Franklin was right - the Sheridan he knew before Z'ha'dum would never have used non-combatants the way that Sheridan did the frozen teeps. But by using, sacrificing them, he minimized the losses. One teep disabling an entire ship might have saved the entire crew plus the possible losses to Sheridan's fleet. Just like the choice to defend Coriana 6 instead of Centauri Prime, it came down to the cold, hard numbers.

            Jan
            "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Jan View Post
              ...when Delenn is aware of Sheridan's danger, it's not a matter of simple dramatics, it's because she's got a slight telepathic connection to him. If she didn't, it's unlikely she'd be murmuring his name at a particular moment from light years away. Nor would she have known when Sheridan died, as was made clear when she hugged his pillow in pain just as he went 'beyond the rim'.
              Jan

              Jan your B5 knowledge never ceases to keep me in awe. I always had a feeling that they had a connection but always attributed it to Kosh's influence. Is the telepathic connection mentioned in one of the books?
              What a wonderful world you live in. -
              Yeah, well, the rent is cheap, the pay is decent and I get to make my own hours.

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              • #8
                I would have to guess that it was in one of the books. There was no mention of any telepathic connection in any of the episodes or movies. The only thing that even comes close was the rescue attempt with Lyta at Za'Ha'Dum. That was just Delenn trying to somehow speak through Lyta.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by trimotor View Post
                  I would have to guess that it was in one of the books. There was no mention of any telepathic connection in any of the episodes or movies. The only thing that even comes close was the rescue attempt with Lyta at Za'Ha'Dum. That was just Delenn trying to somehow speak through Lyta.
                  There were hints right through the series that Delenn was mildly telepathic ... the way she detects Alisa Beldon and shuts her out in "Legacies" is just one specific one that springs immediately to mind. Whilst there is no mention of a telepathic connection between Sheridan and Delenn, it isn't a huge leap from what we did see on screen to Delenn having some sort of telepathic bond with her husband that enables her to be sensitive to his heightened frame of mind in serious situations.

                  Being a show that showed much of its characters with out ever feeling the need to explain each and every tiny detail (and its implications) on screen, I don't have a problem with that interpretation at all - it was pretty much what I surmised from the sum total of 5 years of episodes.
                  The Optimist: The glass is half full
                  The Pessimist: The glass is half empty
                  The Engineer: The glass is twice as big as it needs to be

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by glindros View Post
                    Is the telepathic connection mentioned in one of the books?
                    You know...I don't honestly know. It may be. Though my feeling is that it's something JMS said so it might be from a convention appearance or even in one of the DVD commentaries. If I can find it, I'll post the reference here.

                    Jan
                    "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I think being the Generalissimo of the largest alliance ever in the biggest war in the history of the galaxy, during the course of which he was killed and reanimated by an alien, could make someone a bit of a grumpy pants. I think at least half of people would give up when they find out they're dead and have about 20yrs left. I though Sheridan flew off the handle too fast vs. Garabaldi, also, but lets look at what transpired between these two. Sheridan trusted Garibaldi enough to basically help him commit suicide by putting two of the fusion bombs in the White Star and not tell anyone else or even question it. (BTW, I love the way Sheridan tells him go do that and when he's done they will talk about the weather. Great scene.) Then Sheridan comes back and he's got Lorien next to him almost constantly, in public at least, and Garibaldi is naturally suspicious and then he was mentally abused/altered by the PsiCorp. I don't think either one is the same person anymore and Garibaldi is a scarcastic guy and he knew what buttons to push and the fact they were so close before makes it that much worse. I need an editor. Sorry.

                      To sum up, I thought it was a well written flaw in Sheridan's character, not a mistake.
                      "And what kind of head of Security would I be if I let people like me know things that I'm not supposed to know? I mean, I know what I know because I have to know it. And if I don't have to know it, I don't tell me, and I don't let anyone else tell me either. " And I can give you reasonable assurances that the head of Security will not report you for doing so."
                      "Because you won't tell yourself about it?"

                      "I try never to get involved in my own life, too much trouble."

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                      • #12
                        I can think of a dozen scenes in which Sheridan is relaxed, funny and friendly. He's under a lot of stress later in the show, but even there, he has lighter moments.

                        Delenn also is a hell of a lot more than just mysterious and wise. She can be vulnerable, sad, icy, strong, witty, funny... so I really don't see where this complaint is coming from.
                        Jonas Kyratzes | Lands of Dream

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                        • #13
                          I'm commenting more on the moments for both characters that are completely out of character. Mostly, they and the rest of the characters are quite well written, but Sheridan and Delenn both seem to have quite a few moments, especially in later seasons, where their actions are not consistent with their normal behavior.

                          Like i said, I like the characters. Ivonova is my favorite, followed closely by Vir. I just find it odd when one of them does something that isn't consistent with their well established personality.
                          Last edited by trimotor; 04-26-2011, 10:06 AM.

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                          • #14
                            Their personalities change over time, not always for the better, just like real people.

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                            • #15
                              They stated a number of times Sheridan came back different when he returned from Z'Ha'Dum as well as Delenn adjusting to being a Human/Minbari hybrid. I have zero problem with the Sheridan's attitude towards Garibaldi tension in season 4. The circumstances of Garibaldi's disapperance and reapperance were so shady that any sane person would think twice about trusting Michael. I still can't believe that Sheridan or Zack didn't suggest having Lyta do a scan on Garibaldi. Michael, I know every inch of this station on top of the thousands of laws needed for my job, Garibaldi can't remember one little thing about the last few weeks or months and thats ok. Sheridan should have placed him on medical leave regardless of what Franklin said and then waited to see what he did. That has will always beg me that people feel Sheridan is to blame for their friendship erroding, Michael is lucky not to have been placed in a holding cell when he came back.

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