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  • Garibaldi's Hair
    replied
    Originally posted by Jonas View Post
    I think you have it backwards. The PSI Corp helped put Clark in power. And God knows that had consequences.
    Agree with that. In many ways, the Corps had Clark as a weapon they could (and did) use rather than the other way around.

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  • Jonas
    replied
    Originally posted by lotjx View Post
    Its same with the PSI Corp. They were built up as a weapon Clark could use, but he never hpulled the trigger on.
    I think you have it backwards. The PSI Corp helped put Clark in power. And God knows that had consequences.

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  • JoeD80
    replied
    The Great Machine was also used in season four by Ivanova to broadcast the voice of the resistance.

    Originally posted by lotjx View Post
    Its same with the PSI Corp. They were built up as a weapon Clark could use, but he never hpulled the trigger on.
    The character who really ended up using telepaths as weapons was Sheridan, and according to JMS in the script books was the reason his vision in All Alone in the Night includes him in a Psi Cop uniform.
    Last edited by JoeD80; 05-04-2011, 06:23 PM.

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  • ILUVJOHNSHERIDAN
    replied
    The one thing the Great Machine did do was open the rift so the White star and crew could go back in time to help B4. Draal could also see into the future so helping B5 could of changed history.

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  • lotjx
    replied
    The Great Machine was a lot of talk and a badge. It did one really important thing and one important thing then nothing. I also don't see why they needed Draal to do Great Machine stuff since they had Zathurs. It was built as this giant weapon and when the Shadows did come to Babylon 5 it did nothing expect get jammed. I am sure JMS had big things planned for it, but in reality it was just need for two plot devices and that was it.

    Its same with the PSI Corp. They were built up as a weapon Clark could use, but he never hpulled the trigger on. I also think a scan wouldn't have hurt them if someone else scanned them anyway. It seems to be standard procedure to scan a high targert prisoners of war for the Centauri and Minbari, it wouldn't be uncommon if the humans did. It seems to important to do it off screen.

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  • ILUVJOHNSHERIDAN
    replied
    The interogator in season 4, even said Sheridan had to be broken and be converted, otherwise someone could scan him and see he wasn't telling the truth. So I dont think he was scanned at all during the interogation. He was given reality altering drugs - hence seeing Steven in his quarters believing he was rescued, while 2 interogators played along asking him questions about the resistance.

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  • Garibaldi's Hair
    replied
    Originally posted by lotjx View Post
    Its sorta like the Great Machine, all this build for really one little reward.
    The Great Machine was going to play a greater role, particularly in the time-shifting of B4, but John Schuck was unavailable due to him being in a stage show in New York when he would have been needed in LA for filming. IIRC, having re-cast the role of Draal once, JMS said he was reluctant to do so again and quietly put the GM to one side.

    I always assumed Sheridan's talk with fake Franklin was at least somewhat telepathatic induced if not then its a big oversight.
    More likely the drugs we saw him being dosed with were psychotropic, like the ones used against Sinclair in And The Sky Full Of Stars. And it isn't necessarily an oversight, or any other kind of mistake, perhaps simply a dramatic choice. We had, after all, just witnessed Garibaldi in a similar one on one situation with a telepath on Mars, maybe JMS just didn't want to repeat himself so soon.

    As Jonas was saying, we have no way of knowing whether Clark tried to have Sheridan scanned or not, we can assume (or not) that it happened offscreen, we just witnessed the non-telepathic interrogation. Whether it was the only tool Clark tried to employ is irrelevant. Besides, since the audience knows that Sheridan can't be scanned where is the drama in watching someone try?
    Last edited by Garibaldi's Hair; 05-04-2011, 06:04 AM.

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  • Jonas
    replied
    Originally posted by lotjx View Post
    PSI Corp endorsed Clark as V.P. which was a no no back in the day. The few times, we saw the workings of the Clark Administration, there were PSI Corp agents around. I just have a hard time believing Clark as paranoid as it sounded, he won't have had Sheridan scanned. I understand season 4 was rushed, but I always assumed Sheridan's talk with fake Franklin was at least somewhat telepathatic induced if not then its a big oversight. Its sorta like the Great Machine, all this build for really one little reward. All this build of PSI Corp working with Clark with no real resolution at least that we the viewers saw.
    Again - we know Sheridan can't be scanned. So it may well have taken place offscreen. Not everything has to be spelled out.

    As for the Great Machine, Valen seems like a pretty big reward to me. And while there is no *clean* resolution to the Psi Corps thread (how could there be?), there are certainly plenty of massive consequences. But as they say, the duration will be longer than the war...

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  • JoeD80
    replied
    I think it's what Edgars was saying: it's not Clark that's the problem, it's that Psi Corps still has power once Clark is gone. They were using Clark to get more power.

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  • lotjx
    replied
    PSI Corp endorsed Clark as V.P. which was a no no back in the day. The few times, we saw the workings of the Clark Administration, there were PSI Corp agents around. I just have a hard time believing Clark as paranoid as it sounded, he won't have had Sheridan scanned. I understand season 4 was rushed, but I always assumed Sheridan's talk with fake Franklin was at least somewhat telepathatic induced if not then its a big oversight. Its sorta like the Great Machine, all this build for really one little reward. All this build of PSI Corp working with Clark with no real resolution at least that we the viewers saw.

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  • I, Zathras
    replied
    Yeah, they needed him broken to sign the form and to make a speech, but its a good point about him not being scanned, unless Clark was really touchy about the Corp (he was massively paranoid by this point). I know he used them against B5, but at this stage in his presidency did he still trust the Corp? They would no doubt have been aware Sheridan was in custody, but could they get to him? That might be a reason they weren't brought in

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  • JoeD80
    replied
    Originally posted by Jan View Post
    they needed him broken, not reprogrammed?
    They needed him to sign the confession they wrote for him pleading guilty to treason etc. and then get him to read it in public so people would know it was "his" idea to confess.

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  • lotjx
    replied
    Originally posted by Jonas View Post
    Yes, but only with the help of... Lyta!
    And Garibaldi, Zack, Kosh, Lorien and about the entire security plus the entire Station's electric grid. It was a group effort to beat Darth Kosh, Sheridan was the one with the plan that no one else had plus the stomach to kill him. I do think they mention using drugs and some telepathy on him or they give the impression he is an altered state by more then drugs.

    If they don't scan him, then I still think they should have at least gone into his mind to find answers, forget about reprogramming him, strategic locations, people and so on is what they need him for. It makes no sense not to at least poke around in his mind. Its what I would do and if he blocked it then you would know something was up.

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  • Jonas
    replied
    Originally posted by Jan View Post
    If they had interrogated him telepathically, why would they have needed to use drugs? It's been a while and my memory is kind of foggy, but didn't Sheridan ask the interrogator why they didn't have the Psi Corps reprogram him and got the answer that they needed him broken, not reprogrammed?
    That's one aspect of it - they want conversion and repentance. The other one is that if they'd tried, it probably wouldn't have worked.

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  • Jan
    replied
    Originally posted by lotjx View Post
    No, I meant the Season 4 torture scene. I was under the impression he was being telepathaticily scanned as well as being drugged. If he wasn't interrogated by the PSI Corp in some way, I would be shocked and have to facepalm on how stupid Clark would be.
    If they had interrogated him telepathically, why would they have needed to use drugs? It's been a while and my memory is kind of foggy, but didn't Sheridan ask the interrogator why they didn't have the Psi Corps reprogram him and got the answer that they needed him broken, not reprogrammed?

    Jan

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