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  • #61
    Sheridan doesn't have a lot of power. To be fair, we don't know what power he really has or if the ability to resist certain mind control is one of them. He held out a long time under telepathatic interrogation/torture, but we don't know if this was due to Vorlon abilities or the PSI Corp was taking it slow on him. We will never know, but it did make for a good scene even though the math is fuzzy. If you want to look for children of Vorlons, the Minbari got that covered.

    I would like to go back to Sheridan leaving Earthforce. President Clark issued illegal orders and Sheridan was well with his rights as a military man to resist those. He was being a good solider for respecting the law which is above the chain of command. Sheridan respects the chain of command, but also has the ability to ignore like any other solider when the orders violate the law. Sheridan was also not solider or commander to go against Earth Gov. either. Sheridan has acted like a military solider since he arrived on B5 and it was intensified after he became back on Z'ha'Dum due to knowing the full story of the Shadow War as well as the countdown clock in the back of his mind. Even with the countdown clock, he stated he was not ready to fight Earth, but did it anyway, because too innocents were getting killed.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by lotjx View Post
      Sheridan doesn't have a lot of power. To be fair, we don't know what power he really has or if the ability to resist certain mind control is one of them.
      He certainly has the ability to resist scanning. He was, in a sense, altered both by Kosh and by Lorien. He comes back from Z'ha'dum and he's different - one of the reasons Garibaldi is so distrustful of him. He may not be the equivalent of a thermonuclear weapon, but Sheridan is in many ways also a former weapon/pawn of the Vorlons. I see strong parallels to Lyta there, which are underlined by the "pay the rent or get kicked out" stories both characters go through.
      Jonas Kyratzes | Lands of Dream

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      • #63
        What telepathic interrogation did Sheridan undergo? We know he was tortured and interrogated under drugs but I don't recall any indication of telepathic scans taking place?

        Jan
        "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Jan View Post
          What telepathic interrogation did Sheridan undergo? We know he was tortured and interrogated under drugs but I don't recall any indication of telepathic scans taking place?
          No, not during the torture. But we do see Bester try and fail to scan him, if I remember correctly.
          Jonas Kyratzes | Lands of Dream

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          • #65
            No, I meant the Season 4 torture scene. I was under the impression he was being telepathaticily scanned as well as being drugged. If he wasn't interrogated by the PSI Corp in some way, I would be shocked and have to facepalm on how stupid Clark would be.

            The Vorlons may have used Sheridan, but he used them as well at times too and also killed Darth Kosh. He was a pawn, but a pawn that was not fully controlled by the player.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by lotjx View Post
              The Vorlons may have used Sheridan, but he used them as well at times too and also killed Darth Kosh. He was a pawn, but a pawn that was not fully controlled by the player.
              Yes, but only with the help of... Lyta!
              Jonas Kyratzes | Lands of Dream

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              • #67
                Originally posted by lotjx View Post
                No, I meant the Season 4 torture scene. I was under the impression he was being telepathaticily scanned as well as being drugged. If he wasn't interrogated by the PSI Corp in some way, I would be shocked and have to facepalm on how stupid Clark would be.
                If they had interrogated him telepathically, why would they have needed to use drugs? It's been a while and my memory is kind of foggy, but didn't Sheridan ask the interrogator why they didn't have the Psi Corps reprogram him and got the answer that they needed him broken, not reprogrammed?

                Jan
                "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Jan View Post
                  If they had interrogated him telepathically, why would they have needed to use drugs? It's been a while and my memory is kind of foggy, but didn't Sheridan ask the interrogator why they didn't have the Psi Corps reprogram him and got the answer that they needed him broken, not reprogrammed?
                  That's one aspect of it - they want conversion and repentance. The other one is that if they'd tried, it probably wouldn't have worked.
                  Jonas Kyratzes | Lands of Dream

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Jonas View Post
                    Yes, but only with the help of... Lyta!
                    And Garibaldi, Zack, Kosh, Lorien and about the entire security plus the entire Station's electric grid. It was a group effort to beat Darth Kosh, Sheridan was the one with the plan that no one else had plus the stomach to kill him. I do think they mention using drugs and some telepathy on him or they give the impression he is an altered state by more then drugs.

                    If they don't scan him, then I still think they should have at least gone into his mind to find answers, forget about reprogramming him, strategic locations, people and so on is what they need him for. It makes no sense not to at least poke around in his mind. Its what I would do and if he blocked it then you would know something was up.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Jan View Post
                      they needed him broken, not reprogrammed?
                      They needed him to sign the confession they wrote for him pleading guilty to treason etc. and then get him to read it in public so people would know it was "his" idea to confess.

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                      • #71
                        Yeah, they needed him broken to sign the form and to make a speech, but its a good point about him not being scanned, unless Clark was really touchy about the Corp (he was massively paranoid by this point). I know he used them against B5, but at this stage in his presidency did he still trust the Corp? They would no doubt have been aware Sheridan was in custody, but could they get to him? That might be a reason they weren't brought in
                        I'm a pessimist: that way you're never disappointed but frequently, pleasantly surprised

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                        • #72
                          PSI Corp endorsed Clark as V.P. which was a no no back in the day. The few times, we saw the workings of the Clark Administration, there were PSI Corp agents around. I just have a hard time believing Clark as paranoid as it sounded, he won't have had Sheridan scanned. I understand season 4 was rushed, but I always assumed Sheridan's talk with fake Franklin was at least somewhat telepathatic induced if not then its a big oversight. Its sorta like the Great Machine, all this build for really one little reward. All this build of PSI Corp working with Clark with no real resolution at least that we the viewers saw.

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                          • #73
                            I think it's what Edgars was saying: it's not Clark that's the problem, it's that Psi Corps still has power once Clark is gone. They were using Clark to get more power.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by lotjx View Post
                              PSI Corp endorsed Clark as V.P. which was a no no back in the day. The few times, we saw the workings of the Clark Administration, there were PSI Corp agents around. I just have a hard time believing Clark as paranoid as it sounded, he won't have had Sheridan scanned. I understand season 4 was rushed, but I always assumed Sheridan's talk with fake Franklin was at least somewhat telepathatic induced if not then its a big oversight. Its sorta like the Great Machine, all this build for really one little reward. All this build of PSI Corp working with Clark with no real resolution at least that we the viewers saw.
                              Again - we know Sheridan can't be scanned. So it may well have taken place offscreen. Not everything has to be spelled out.

                              As for the Great Machine, Valen seems like a pretty big reward to me. And while there is no *clean* resolution to the Psi Corps thread (how could there be?), there are certainly plenty of massive consequences. But as they say, the duration will be longer than the war...
                              Jonas Kyratzes | Lands of Dream

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by lotjx View Post
                                Its sorta like the Great Machine, all this build for really one little reward.
                                The Great Machine was going to play a greater role, particularly in the time-shifting of B4, but John Schuck was unavailable due to him being in a stage show in New York when he would have been needed in LA for filming. IIRC, having re-cast the role of Draal once, JMS said he was reluctant to do so again and quietly put the GM to one side.

                                I always assumed Sheridan's talk with fake Franklin was at least somewhat telepathatic induced if not then its a big oversight.
                                More likely the drugs we saw him being dosed with were psychotropic, like the ones used against Sinclair in And The Sky Full Of Stars. And it isn't necessarily an oversight, or any other kind of mistake, perhaps simply a dramatic choice. We had, after all, just witnessed Garibaldi in a similar one on one situation with a telepath on Mars, maybe JMS just didn't want to repeat himself so soon.

                                As Jonas was saying, we have no way of knowing whether Clark tried to have Sheridan scanned or not, we can assume (or not) that it happened offscreen, we just witnessed the non-telepathic interrogation. Whether it was the only tool Clark tried to employ is irrelevant. Besides, since the audience knows that Sheridan can't be scanned where is the drama in watching someone try?
                                Last edited by Garibaldi's Hair; 05-04-2011, 06:04 AM.
                                The Optimist: The glass is half full
                                The Pessimist: The glass is half empty
                                The Engineer: The glass is twice as big as it needs to be

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