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  • lotjx
    replied
    Yes, I meant failures in the eyes of the studio. Also, as much as I love B5, Legend of the Rangers was tough to get through. Retreading the Shadows, a group of mostly humans fighting against the odds and using the same trick twice to beat this impossible enemy as well as the technology of the defense system on a junk ship was just awful. The cast and characters didn't help either. G'Kar was the only good thing about it.

    Crusade was doomed from the start and as much as I want to see it back, we already now the ending. I do wish they would have chosen the tecnomage trilogy to wrap up Crusade if it wasn't already close to being done or already done. Technomage trilogy is about one book more then it needed to be anyway. I also doubt Crusade was going to be better then B5 for a lot of reasons.

    The Doctor and Jan are annoying. While I like Jan more then the Doctor, I would have been cool with those two dying instead of Walsh and Shepard. I don't understand why you kill a character like Shepard whose backstory makes it more feesible for the characters to know things about the Alliance then anyone else including River. Walsh was just a fun character and once you kill the fun character then the show becomes sad and depressing. As much as I love red heads, I would have been ok to with the engineering dying as well. Hell, anyone on the cast would have been fair game expect Mal, River and those two. I know people who saw people walk out of the theater after Wash died. I just don't see how a fanbase like that could recover when you piss off a good chunk of it. Imagine if B5 was cancled in season 4 and we never go Sleeping in the Light. Yet, we get a movie where Garibaldi gets killed in the middle of the film by Bester, Franklin and/or Susan die at the end in some random way. Do you think we get a follow-up series or would want a follow-up series? Probably not.

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  • valens_shadow
    replied
    Originally posted by lotjx View Post
    Rebooting is the new Hollywood way of doing things. To be fair, its always how they worked, look at how many incarnations of Superman, Batman, Spiderman, Star Trek and so on we have had in TV and film over the years. I do believe when Lucas and Speilberg are gone someone will reboot Star Wars, Jaws, ET and Indiana Jones. The problem for Hollywood is their a beast that can not be feed. They have to make money and one of the easiest ways to make money is to do something that has a built in audience. Its harder to take a risk on something like Toy Story or Black Swan or District 9 then it is to do a sequel or reboot a project or make a film about something everyone knows like superheroes. I am not saying its a good thing, but that is the rational and to be fair minus this year, they have had a string of sucess with it.

    To be fair, Firefly was doomed day one and is even worse off now, because how terrible Serenity was. I know there are some real hardcore fans who want it back as well as some of the cast, but that ship sailed when you killed a quarter of your cast and kept the annoying quarter of the rest of the cast. Farscape had a great ending and really that is all it needs. I am not sure how or why you would want to do Farscape after that ending. The odds of another human coming through a wormhole were iffy at best the first time, the second time is damn near impossible, it reeks of Planet of the Apes 2. Yes, you do need a human for Farscape or it becomes weird quick. I also don't want someone to try and retread Crichton, because that is one of the greatest characters in sci-fi thanks to Bowder and awesome scripts.

    The problem with rebooting Crusade and Legend of the Rangers mainly Rangers is they are failures. B5 worked and exceeded expectations. B5 worked, so you reboot what worked not what did not work. Now, we all want to know how Crusade ended, but if you read the books primarily the last PSI Corp book as well as seeing Franklin walking around in Sleeping in Light, you know they cured it. The best hope for the Centauri Trilogy would be graphic novels or an animated film like Bruce Timm is doing with the DCU. All you need is Andreas' voice and I am pretty sure they have enough of his voice work, it will be fine. At this point, any new B5 would be good news.

    I would be very much surprised if there was not a continuation of Firefly/Serenity in big or small screen format. I must admit I'm surprised by your view that Serenity was terrible. I thought that it was a very good movie and while not as good as the series it was certainly very enjoyable. While it didn't do great business at the Box Office it has also brought in new fans to Firefly since it's DVD release. I can't honestly see Firefly not flying again and a really hope it happens sooner rather than later. While it was sad that they killed the characters they killed in Serenity those characters can still return in flashback scenes. Besides they still have the best characters from the series left alive and like Jan I don't find any character annoying, plus I too wanted to know more of Book's backstory.

    I'd definitely don't want to see another human or actor replacing Crichton. What I want to see is the original cast on the big screen. There's definitely plenty of scope for new stories and the last I heard the Henson's are trying to get funding to make it happen. I also have to agree that Crichton is one of the greatest characters in science-fiction.

    I'd take it you never read any of the story ideas JMS planned to use for Crusade? Because if you did you would know that the plague was due to be cured somewhere around the midway point of series 2. For the life of me I can't remember what the real main story arc for Crusade was going to be but trust me when I say it sounded like it could easily have been better than Babylon 5!

    Originally posted by Jan View Post

    One thing to keep in mind when thinking about what the April (or post-April) announcement might be is that JMS has regularly stressed that whatever he does in the B5 universe in the future, it'll need to be a story that he burns to tell. While I don't pretend to know what JMS thinks, I can't see him telling a story that's already been told, such as that of the Centauri trilogy. After all, while he wrote the outline, it's not really his story to tell. Not to mention the fact that there are few to no Humans involved.

    Jan
    Whatever B5 comes I'll be happy as long as it's live action, big or small screen.

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  • Jan
    replied
    'Fraid I heartily disagree with your assessment of the Firefly movie. Yeah, I wasn't happy to see Wash and Book die, but mostly because I'd've like to learn more about Book's background. I didn't find any of the characters annoying.

    The so-called 'failures' of Crusade and Rangers are very subjective. The fact is, Rangers far exceeded ratings expectations in the time zones where it wasn't in conflict with that week's football game of the century. Being cancelled before Crusade ever aired automatically meant lower ratings when it did air because many fans, knowing that there was no closure, completely avoided it (and stillavoid buying or watching the DVDs).

    But yeah, from the view of the studios, they probably would be considered failures.

    While I perhaps (though it's a huge stretch) could see JMS changing his mind regarding not recasting G'Kar, I'm pretty sure he'd never use previous performances by Andreas to make 'new' ones. My thinking is that the tribute to him in the voiceover on the Lost Tales disk was the last we'll hear of him and that's as it should be.

    One thing to keep in mind when thinking about what the April (or post-April) announcement might be is that JMS has regularly stressed that whatever he does in the B5 universe in the future, it'll need to be a story that he burns to tell. While I don't pretend to know what JMS thinks, I can't see him telling a story that's already been told, such as that of the Centauri trilogy. After all, while he wrote the outline, it's not really his story to tell. Not to mention the fact that there are few to no Humans involved.

    Jan

    Leave a comment:


  • lotjx
    replied
    Rebooting is the new Hollywood way of doing things. To be fair, its always how they worked, look at how many incarnations of Superman, Batman, Spiderman, Star Trek and so on we have had in TV and film over the years. I do believe when Lucas and Speilberg are gone someone will reboot Star Wars, Jaws, ET and Indiana Jones. The problem for Hollywood is their a beast that can not be feed. They have to make money and one of the easiest ways to make money is to do something that has a built in audience. Its harder to take a risk on something like Toy Story or Black Swan or District 9 then it is to do a sequel or reboot a project or make a film about something everyone knows like superheroes. I am not saying its a good thing, but that is the rational and to be fair minus this year, they have had a string of sucess with it.

    To be fair, Firefly was doomed day one and is even worse off now, because how terrible Serenity was. I know there are some real hardcore fans who want it back as well as some of the cast, but that ship sailed when you killed a quarter of your cast and kept the annoying quarter of the rest of the cast. Farscape had a great ending and really that is all it needs. I am not sure how or why you would want to do Farscape after that ending. The odds of another human coming through a wormhole were iffy at best the first time, the second time is damn near impossible, it reeks of Planet of the Apes 2. Yes, you do need a human for Farscape or it becomes weird quick. I also don't want someone to try and retread Crichton, because that is one of the greatest characters in sci-fi thanks to Bowder and awesome scripts.

    The problem with rebooting Crusade and Legend of the Rangers mainly Rangers is they are failures. B5 worked and exceeded expectations. B5 worked, so you reboot what worked not what did not work. Now, we all want to know how Crusade ended, but if you read the books primarily the last PSI Corp book as well as seeing Franklin walking around in Sleeping in Light, you know they cured it. The best hope for the Centauri Trilogy would be graphic novels or an animated film like Bruce Timm is doing with the DCU. All you need is Andreas' voice and I am pretty sure they have enough of his voice work, it will be fine. At this point, any new B5 would be good news.

    Leave a comment:


  • valens_shadow
    replied
    Originally posted by JoeD80 View Post
    Joe mentioned in the script books that he has considered using Ta'Lon in some way if there is future B5.
    That is so freaky I was just watching a series five episode and was thinking Ta'Lon would be an obvious replacement for G'Kar .

    Originally posted by lotjx View Post
    You can have G'Kar a variety of different ways. Apperantly, George Lucas is going around getting the estates of dead actors to give him the rights to use their likeness in films. In the future, I fully expect in the future you will able to do that for a lot of actors. You can use G'Kar in the Centauri Trilogy since the most important scene is done. The other part of his role can be CGI or would be CGI anyway. The Dilger War has nothing to do with G'Kar, Na'Toth's role is important in that or at least her grandfather. To me, the Dilger War is the easiest way to reboot the series with a young cast. Legends of the Rangers proved to me that doing a young cast while the B5 characters are alive is doomed to fail.


    I should imagine that technology is still a fair way off. If the level of this technology could be done so that you question your own eyes and ears, I would love to see G'Kar return. Just hearing his voice at the beginning of the Lost Tales sent a shiver down my spine. If the level of CGI and voice-recognition software could bring him back, as if Andreas never left, I wouldn't be adverse to his return...

    The more I think about it the more I wonder why people keep talking about a reboot? Babylon 5 is not Star Trek and has so many stories to offer... And those are the ones that JMS has cared to share the possibilities with. Babylon 5 probably has 2, 3 or even 4 (at and least) 100 episode TV series, no end of mini-series and a whole bunch of big screen movies. The idea or a need to tell a story that even most people don't even know is pointless. Given how timeless the story is


    It was the end of the Earth year 2261, and it was the dawn of a new age, for all of us. It was the end of one chapter and the beginning of another. The next twenty years would see great changes, great joy, and great sorrow. The Telepath War, and the Drakh War. The new Alliance would waver, and crack, but in the end, it would hold. Because what is built endures, and what is loved endures. And Babylon 5 - Babylon 5 endures.
    If anybody is going to reboot a movie or TV series why choose something that still works? Why not reboot Crusade, Legend of the Rangers or something with great potential that is really old or never told its story. Babylon 5 has so much untapped potential, just like Farscape and Firefly . "rebooting" is just Hollywood's lazy current phase as it was to do prequels a few years earlier.
    Last edited by valens_shadow; 03-20-2011, 08:31 PM.

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  • David Panzer
    replied
    Along with Christopher Franke doing new music.

    Leave a comment:


  • Marsden
    replied
    I know this is a few posts too late, but going back to the Centauri trilogy, every time I read Durla's parts I heard Refa's voice, it seemed to fit. Also with Shivkala it sounded like Kim Strauss. I know Wayne Alexander was the one who played Shivkala on screen but I kept hearing Kim Strauss. And of course Londo, Vir, G'kar, and all the rest were there.

    Leave a comment:


  • AmyG
    replied
    Oh, yeesh, not the "dead actors' likenesses" conversation again! Ack! :-D

    Honestly, JMS doesn't strike me as the type of guy to do this. It is really creepy and entirely disrespectful of an actor's craft. He is just not that guy, you know? You'd have to do it without the actor's permission by necessity, the actor being dead. And JMS is not the kind of guy to do something like that. Also, I have to point out that he's a writer (and director) who actually appreciates what the actor brings to the table. So I can't imagine him wanting to digitally manipulate old footage and create a new performance *mechanically*.

    I would flip right out and come and haunt anyone who took my voice after my death, and digitally added it to some piece of music that I wasn't around to create while I was alive. Seriously, I don't know any actor who thinks this stuff is a good idea.
    Last edited by AmyG; 03-20-2011, 04:09 PM.

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  • Jan
    replied
    Jay's been doing some equipment changes and software upgrades. And of course, life tends to get in the way sometimes.

    Jan

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  • Karen
    replied
    Originally posted by AmyG View Post
    The newsgroup is currently dead, so that gives me a little more head space to poke around the other places, like here...
    Why is the newsgroup currently dead?

    Leave a comment:


  • lotjx
    replied
    You can have G'Kar a variety of different ways. Apperantly, George Lucas is going around getting the estates of dead actors to give him the rights to use their likeness in films. In the future, I fully expect in the future you will able to do that for a lot of actors. You can use G'Kar in the Centauri Trilogy since the most important scene is done. The other part of his role can be CGI or would be CGI anyway. The Dilger War has nothing to do with G'Kar, Na'Toth's role is important in that or at least her grandfather. To me, the Dilger War is the easiest way to reboot the series with a young cast. Legends of the Rangers proved to me that doing a young cast while the B5 characters are alive is doomed to fail.

    Leave a comment:


  • AmyG
    replied
    Did he really say that? Can anyone verify it? Jan did a cursory search on this for me the other day (thank you, Jan!), and couldn't find it. I really need to hear what he said on this!

    Leave a comment:


  • JoeD80
    replied
    Originally posted by AmyG View Post
    And again, we come around to JMS saying that no one would ever play G'Kar besides Andreas, and since Andreas has passed beyond the rim, well...
    Joe mentioned in the script books that he has considered using Ta'Lon in some way if there is future B5.
    Originally posted by AmyG View Post
    And it remains to be seen whether JMS would be willing to reboot the universe.
    I recall him saying (in the podcast interview?) that he thought a "next generation" style or reboot would both suit B5 just fine.

    Leave a comment:


  • AmyG
    replied
    Hey, SmileOfTheShadow! (And btw, who are you IRL again?) I've been here in the past, and gone, and back again. This is one of those "back again" times. The newsgroup is currently dead, so that gives me a little more head space to poke around the other places, like here...

    As for G'Kar and Lyta, the leave the station in December of 2262, and, leaving out all spoilers for stuff outside the series, we know Lyta is back sometime in 2264 because Garibaldi runs into her. So they're together under two years, probably more like one year if you factor in various other things. Is that vague enough? ;-)

    Leave a comment:


  • SmileOfTheShadow
    replied
    Well G'Kar is back for legend of the rangers and Lyta dies in the telepath wars right? I can't remember all the specifics anymore. I really am skeptical about anything B5 related really coming out anymore.

    And hey Amy! didn't know you were on here.

    Leave a comment:

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