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  • #91
    I think that scene shows that Delenn can be overly idealistic in a way; she has her own illusions about her caste, much like Neroon has about his. That doesn't mean she's blind to all flaws, but she could never imagine the sort of thing that almost happened. Lennier is quite right in his assessment of her.

    I think this fits in rather well with the show's very ambiguous depiction of Minbari religion.
    Jonas Kyratzes | Lands of Dream

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    • #92
      spaced mundane

      There is a B5 episode, where at the end, Bester has a assistant female Pci cop that spaces a mundane.
      Which episode was that?

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      • #93
        That episode is from season five, "The Corps Is Mother, The Corps Is Father"

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        • #94
          Originally posted by WorkerCaste View Post
          I'm rewatching the series and just watched "Rumors, Lies and Bragains" and from the very first time I saw this, I had a question. I've got my opinion on the answer, but I was wondering what others though.

          After the warrior attacks Neroon, Delenn addresses the Religious caste members telling them that they are her rock, and that she knows something like the attack on Neroon would never happen among their caste. Later Lennier tells them that Delenn doesn't live in the same world as they do.

          So, the question occurred to me, how much do they think they are speaking the truth, and how correct are they? I see 3 basic possibilities:

          1) Delenn absolutely believed what she was saying, and Lennier was correct that she was living in another world.

          2) Delenn knew the members of her caste had the same sort of doubts and was manipulating them by showing she thought the best of them in hopes they would rise to the occasion. Then, Lennier was blinded by his love for Delenn and believed what he said, not understanding what she was doing.

          3) They both understood that the doubts existed, and both were using the opportunity to influence them to a better outcome.

          Personally, I think it's number 2. What do you guys think? Is there another option I missed?
          Great question.


          It seems very on target, in a way, "you would never do such a thing" that maybe she was trying to prevent any attempts through a kind of positive reinforcement by stating that she believed in them, rather than ordering them not to. Also she may have figured out from the type of injury Lennier suffered that "something" had happened and was trying to prevent any other attempts. I think she knew Lennier would be seeking out trouble to stop it, because it's his nature to do that, so if Lennier was injured finding something she could deduce it.

          Basically, I'm picking all three. Delenn did believe what she was saying because she does see what's best in everyone, but she isn't blind to when someone isn't their best and was trying to put a positive reinforcement to influence them not to try again while counting on Lennier to head off the attempt, as he did.
          Last edited by Marsden; 06-16-2012, 04:00 PM.
          "And what kind of head of Security would I be if I let people like me know things that I'm not supposed to know? I mean, I know what I know because I have to know it. And if I don't have to know it, I don't tell me, and I don't let anyone else tell me either. " And I can give you reasonable assurances that the head of Security will not report you for doing so."
          "Because you won't tell yourself about it?"

          "I try never to get involved in my own life, too much trouble."

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          • #95
            The Shadow-tech modified destroyers...when did development of them begin? Before the series began or sometime during the civil war?
            Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

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            • #96
              I always assumed that was the idea behind the IPX thing at the end of "Infection"

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              • #97
                Originally posted by Dr Maturin View Post
                The Shadow-tech modified destroyers...when did development of them begin? Before the series began or sometime during the civil war?
                Before the civil war, a prototype was what killed Gideon's ship and he said that was about ten years ago, which was about 6 years after the civil war, which is about year 2258. The civil war was from 2260-1.

                Don't forget, one of the biggest "lies in plain sight" of the B5 story is the Shadows were quite active before the Icarus "found" them. The shadows were masters of subtlety and infiltrated the governments over years, building up their forces. There were elements in EA that knew all about them and were dealing with them before Icarus was even sent.
                Last edited by Marsden; 12-03-2012, 11:04 AM.
                "And what kind of head of Security would I be if I let people like me know things that I'm not supposed to know? I mean, I know what I know because I have to know it. And if I don't have to know it, I don't tell me, and I don't let anyone else tell me either. " And I can give you reasonable assurances that the head of Security will not report you for doing so."
                "Because you won't tell yourself about it?"

                "I try never to get involved in my own life, too much trouble."

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                • #98
                  Originally posted by Marsden View Post
                  Before the civil war, a prototype was what killed Gideon's ship and he said that was about ten years ago, which was about 6 years after the civil war, which is about year 2258. The civil war was from 2260-1.

                  Don't forget, one of the biggest "lies in plain sight" of the B5 story is the Shadows were quite active before the Icarus "found" them. The shadows were masters of subtlety and infiltrated the governments over years, building up their forces. There were elements in EA that knew all about them and were dealing with them before Icarus was even sent.
                  That's right. It's been a while since I've watched Crusade. I am currently on season three of B5.
                  Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

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                  • #99
                    Just a random thought -

                    In an interview JMS was reflecting on how nice it was that WB was hands-off for the most part on the creation of B5.

                    At one point he did mentioned a rare suggestion from an executive about the possibility of Ivanova getting a valentines from a secret admirer - pretty easy to scoff at the idea but...

                    Ivanova did get a bouquet of roses from an 'unknown' admirer that turned out to be a pretty good gag.

                    I guess the moral of the story is what would be Grade-A schlock on any other series could be turned on it's head and benefit if given to the right actors.

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                    • Originally posted by DaveNarn View Post
                      Just a random thought -

                      In an interview JMS was reflecting on how nice it was that WB was hands-off for the most part on the creation of B5.

                      At one point he did mentioned a rare suggestion from an executive about the possibility of Ivanova getting a valentines from a secret admirer - pretty easy to scoff at the idea but...

                      Ivanova did get a bouquet of roses from an 'unknown' admirer that turned out to be a pretty good gag.

                      I guess the moral of the story is what would be Grade-A schlock on any other series could be turned on it's head and benefit if given to the right actors.

                      That scene was so cute and funny. It was the type of situation, beginning with a misunderstanding that could happen to anyone. A sitcom, or StarTrek ep could revolve an entire show around it, but with B5 it was just a cute little scene, that enhanced without calling undue attention to itself.

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                      • OK, in The Gathering, and regarding the arrival of Kosh, Sinclair says words to the effect of "I don't want a repeat of what happened when G'Kar arrived!"

                        Does anyone know what that referes to?
                        Last edited by DGTWoodward; 12-11-2012, 10:28 AM. Reason: says for say
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                        • Originally posted by DGTWoodward View Post
                          OK, in The Gathering, and regarding the arrival of Kosh, Sinclair say words to the effect of "I don't want a repeat of what happened when G'Kar arrived!"

                          Does anyone know what that referes to?
                          Londo showed up in drag - dressed in Narn female attire. It was considered a great insult to the Narn people. And two of Londo's "six" were on display due to the hemline.

                          The less said, the better.
                          "Jan Schroeder is insane" - J. Michael Straczynski, March 2008

                          The Station: A Babylon 5 Podcast

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                          • The great, unanswered question of Babylon 5

                            Who is Chief Willis and why does he spend so much time in cargo bay four? Discuss.

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                            • Originally posted by JasonDavis View Post
                              Who is Chief Willis and why does he spend so much time in cargo bay four? Discuss.
                              I'm stumped...

                              Jan
                              "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

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                              • Originally posted by Jan View Post
                                I'm stumped...

                                Jan
                                Me, too.
                                "And what kind of head of Security would I be if I let people like me know things that I'm not supposed to know? I mean, I know what I know because I have to know it. And if I don't have to know it, I don't tell me, and I don't let anyone else tell me either. " And I can give you reasonable assurances that the head of Security will not report you for doing so."
                                "Because you won't tell yourself about it?"

                                "I try never to get involved in my own life, too much trouble."

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