Random questions about B5

[Jan]

I'm past due for a re-watch but my impression was that the green glow was when she was 'channeling' the Vorlons, as in the time she said that nobody could go to their homeworld for a million years. The black, however, seemed to me to be when she was stretching her powers to the limit. Remember, the first time we saw them was when she was fighting the Shadows telepathically and had just found out they'd killed Kosh.

Aren't those figures adorable??

Jan

[Ubik]

I'm past due for a re-watch but my impression was that the green glow was when she was 'channeling' the Vorlons, as in the time she said that nobody could go to their homeworld for a million years. The black, however, seemed to me to be when she was stretching her powers to the limit. Remember, the first time we saw them was when she was fighting the Shadows telepathically and had just found out they'd killed Kosh.

Aren't those figures adorable??

Jan

I agree with Jan's assessment (and she’s pretty much always right when it comes to B5 lore!). Funny how this has become a bit of a trope, if I recall the same effect was used for Willow on BTVS when she went postal / uber powerful.

[Jan]

Okay, this isn't a question, just a cool piece of B5 trivia:

I heard from Jason (You know, the editor at B5 Books and master of informative footnotes ) that it was 20 years ago today that Mr. Garibaldi's scenes with Sparky the Computer (AKA Harlan Ellison) were filmed for "Ceremonies of Light and Dark".



Jan

[Babel-17]

Off Topic about Harlan Ellison (and his voice as a computer): https://www.fastcompany.com/3053050/...-from-the-dead

"How One Company Is Bringing Old Video Games Back From The Dead

Night Dive Studios got started on a whim. But in less than three years, it’s given dozens of games a second life.
By Jared Newman

"Stephen! This is Harlan Ellison!"

With a gruff tone, Stephen Kick is describing an unexpected phone call from one of his sci-fi heroes. Kick had been trying to license the rights for I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream—not Ellison’s famous short story from 1967, but the largely overlooked PC game from 1995. After speaking with Ellison’s agents, and hearing stories about how he’d been burned financially by the game’s original publishers, Kick was certain he’d invoked the author’s wrath.

But in conversation, Ellison was the opposite of his brash public persona. Not only did he allow Kick to revamp and resell I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream in downloadable form, but he also sent a box of signed mouse pads and strategy guides from the original launch to help with promotion. Two years later, Kick and Ellison still stay in touch. "He’s got this reputation of being angsty, bitter, unapproachable," Kick says. "But he’s just the sweetest guy.""

Huh, board ate half my post. I'll try again. This was one of the first games I've ever bought, and it's one of the best written. It has everything you'd expect from his wicked mind and his voice acting as AM (Allied Master Computer) was great, and funny.

http://www.nightdivestudios.com/games/i-have-no-mouth-and-i-must-scream/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fneqw1llI8

[Ubik]

Off Topic about Harlan Ellison (and his voice as a computer): https://www.fastcompany.com/3053050/...-from-the-dead

"How One Company Is Bringing Old Video Games Back From The Dead

Night Dive Studios got started on a whim. But in less than three years, it’s given dozens of games a second life.
By Jared Newman

"Stephen! This is Harlan Ellison!"

With a gruff tone, Stephen Kick is describing an unexpected phone call from one of his sci-fi heroes. Kick had been trying to license the rights for I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream—not Ellison’s famous short story from 1967, but the largely overlooked PC game from 1995. After speaking with Ellison’s agents, and hearing stories about how he’d been burned financially by the game’s original publishers, Kick was certain he’d invoked the author’s wrath.

But in conversation, Ellison was the opposite of his brash public persona. Not only did he allow Kick to revamp and resell I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream in downloadable form, but he also sent a box of signed mouse pads and strategy guides from the original launch to help with promotion. Two years later, Kick and Ellison still stay in touch. "He’s got this reputation of being angsty, bitter, unapproachable," Kick says. "But he’s just the sweetest guy.""

Huh, board ate half my post. I'll try again. This was one of the first games I've ever bought, and it's one of the best written. It has everything you'd expect from his wicked mind and his voice acting as AM (Allied Master Computer) was great, and funny.

http://www.nightdivestudios.com/games/i-have-no-mouth-and-i-must-scream/

www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fneqw1llI8

Funny you should mention this, I noted it on GOG.com when browsing for classic games. Not played it. but am partial to point and click adventure games, so will give it a look. I just played through Indiana Jones and The Fate of Atlantis and boy was that one great nostalgia trip. The game really held up after all this time! I miss Lucas Arts adventure games!

Total

[Jan]

"Stephen! This is Harlan Ellison!"

I remember that voice! Back when I was doing some fund-raising for Spider Robinson's wife's medical expenses, Harlan generously allowed me to auction off dinner with himself and Susan. After the auction was over, I called him to give him the information about the winner and though he answered the phone in a gruff manner, as soon as he knew who I was and why I was calling, his voice went very gentle. You could tell that he cared about Spider and Jeanne a lot.

Wonderful man.

Jan

[flobo]

Hey everyone, rewatching B5 with the scripts books for the first time and i'm wondering, about Delenn having to kill Sinclair if he remembers in season one. (The script even goes further, it says "and the war will start over").

It made perfect sense considering the original arc with Sinclair being either the saver or destroyer of Minbari civilisation.

But with the prophecy retcon in season 2, i'm not sure it makes that much sense anymore. I mean, Sinclair has a minbari soul, the soul of Valen, so why would they want to kill him ?

Has there been any rationalization of the whole thing somewhere ?

[Jan]

Hey everyone, rewatching B5 with the scripts books for the first time and i'm wondering, about Delenn having to kill Sinclair if he remembers in season one. (The script even goes further, it says "and the war will start over").

It made perfect sense considering the original arc with Sinclair being either the saver or destroyer of Minbari civilisation.

But with the prophecy retcon in season 2, i'm not sure it makes that much sense anymore. I mean, Sinclair has a minbari soul, the soul of Valen, so why would they want to kill him ?

Has there been any rationalization of the whole thing somewhere ?

Just what JMS said here when asked after In The Beginning aired:

Here's the reasoning on this.

First, understand that Minbari believe in reincarnation.

Second, as noted in ItB, if the Sinclair/Valen/soul issue got
out, it would likely tear Minbari society apart. The repercussions
would be devastating on every possible level, if it came before they
could be prepared properly.

In light of that, with or without a Minbari (or Valen's) soul,
better to sacrifice Sinclair (who will be reborn anyway, and maybe next
time in a proper Minbari body) than see Minbar damaged. Remember, they
don't know about the time loop, they see it as a straight-line
progression.

jms

Of course, by then there may have been some reconning.

Jan

[flobo]

Thanks, it can make sense that way indeed, even if it's a bit forced.

Still amazing how so many things in season 1 could be reinterpreted slightly in a different way after the Sinclair removal changed the arc so that it still makes sense.

[Jan]

Still amazing how so many things in season 1 could be reinterpreted slightly in a different way after the Sinclair removal changed the arc so that it still makes sense.

Yeah, JMS has a mind like (as I think he's said) a bucket full of snakes. Have you read the 'Babylon Squared' introduction yet? That one was twisty!

[flobo]

Yes, i did, another very interesting read.

Just made me think about something else.

JMS implies than Sinclair was going to steal B4 from 20 years into the future in one version of the arc.

Meaning there is a version of the arc in which Sinclair stays on and still become Valen.

I've always figured that the Valen part was worked out when Michael O Hare couldn't return, as a way to exit the character but maybe it was thought about sooner that i thought, in late season 1.

[Jan]

Y
I've always figured that the Valen part was worked out when Michael O Hare couldn't return, as a way to exit the character but maybe it was thought about sooner that i thought, in late season 1.

By then it was obvious that Michael wouldn't be able to come back, I think. But as for a 'version' of the arc, I'm thinking that if it existed anywhere it was jotted down notes rather than anything as formal as the memo in Volume 15. At least, IMO.

Jan

[flobo]

You're probably right.

I'm probably thinking way too much about it since i've started rewatching and reading those books, but there's another little thing with Sinclair.

In B5, the story is told by the main characters in the far future. (Londo in the pilot "i was there, at the down of the third age...", Sinclair in S1 "it was the dawn of the third age of mankind", Sheridan in S2, Ivanova in S3,... ).

Sinclair left to become Valen in the middle of season 3, quite a while before the third age / end of the war and never knew it.

Adding the fact that he implied he might see marcus again in his letter, i wonder if JMS ever toyed with the idea of a possible Sinclair/Valen return to the present era.

[Jan]

Adding the fact that he implied he might see marcus again in his letter, i wonder if JMS ever toyed with the idea of a possible Sinclair/Valen return to the present era.

No telling what might have gone through JMS' mind! But when it comes to the opening narrations, remember that what was saw was a documentary so we have to allow for the all-seeing eye of hindsight.

[JasonDavis]

I've always figured Valen was in suspended animation on the Vorlon homeworld.

We know he left Minbar. The Minbari believed he would one day return. The Vorlons abducted other "chosen ones" over the years. It would make sense that the Vorlons would preserve him for some future manipulation of the Minbari.

Depending on how much Valen confided in Kosh about his origins, Kosh itself might have seen to the preservation of Valen, not knowing that he originated in the 23rd century as Sinclair. I'm sure Kosh figured it all out pretty quickly upon meeting Sinclair in 2257, but its hesitancy to act openly against the Shadows may have been tied to uncertainty regarding the logistics of getting Sinclair to the past. I've always thought it was very telling that Kosh finally acted openly (and suicidally) just as the rift in Sector 14 was expanded and Sinclair received the letter from Valen.