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  • DaveNarn
    replied
    Just a random thought -

    In an interview JMS was reflecting on how nice it was that WB was hands-off for the most part on the creation of B5.

    At one point he did mentioned a rare suggestion from an executive about the possibility of Ivanova getting a valentines from a secret admirer - pretty easy to scoff at the idea but...

    Ivanova did get a bouquet of roses from an 'unknown' admirer that turned out to be a pretty good gag.

    I guess the moral of the story is what would be Grade-A schlock on any other series could be turned on it's head and benefit if given to the right actors.

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  • Dr Maturin
    replied
    Originally posted by Marsden View Post
    Before the civil war, a prototype was what killed Gideon's ship and he said that was about ten years ago, which was about 6 years after the civil war, which is about year 2258. The civil war was from 2260-1.

    Don't forget, one of the biggest "lies in plain sight" of the B5 story is the Shadows were quite active before the Icarus "found" them. The shadows were masters of subtlety and infiltrated the governments over years, building up their forces. There were elements in EA that knew all about them and were dealing with them before Icarus was even sent.
    That's right. It's been a while since I've watched Crusade. I am currently on season three of B5.

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  • Marsden
    replied
    Originally posted by Dr Maturin View Post
    The Shadow-tech modified destroyers...when did development of them begin? Before the series began or sometime during the civil war?
    Before the civil war, a prototype was what killed Gideon's ship and he said that was about ten years ago, which was about 6 years after the civil war, which is about year 2258. The civil war was from 2260-1.

    Don't forget, one of the biggest "lies in plain sight" of the B5 story is the Shadows were quite active before the Icarus "found" them. The shadows were masters of subtlety and infiltrated the governments over years, building up their forces. There were elements in EA that knew all about them and were dealing with them before Icarus was even sent.
    Last edited by Marsden; 12-03-2012, 10:04 AM.

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  • JoeD80
    replied
    I always assumed that was the idea behind the IPX thing at the end of "Infection"

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  • Dr Maturin
    replied
    The Shadow-tech modified destroyers...when did development of them begin? Before the series began or sometime during the civil war?

    Leave a comment:


  • Marsden
    replied
    Originally posted by WorkerCaste View Post
    I'm rewatching the series and just watched "Rumors, Lies and Bragains" and from the very first time I saw this, I had a question. I've got my opinion on the answer, but I was wondering what others though.

    After the warrior attacks Neroon, Delenn addresses the Religious caste members telling them that they are her rock, and that she knows something like the attack on Neroon would never happen among their caste. Later Lennier tells them that Delenn doesn't live in the same world as they do.

    So, the question occurred to me, how much do they think they are speaking the truth, and how correct are they? I see 3 basic possibilities:

    1) Delenn absolutely believed what she was saying, and Lennier was correct that she was living in another world.

    2) Delenn knew the members of her caste had the same sort of doubts and was manipulating them by showing she thought the best of them in hopes they would rise to the occasion. Then, Lennier was blinded by his love for Delenn and believed what he said, not understanding what she was doing.

    3) They both understood that the doubts existed, and both were using the opportunity to influence them to a better outcome.

    Personally, I think it's number 2. What do you guys think? Is there another option I missed?
    Great question.


    It seems very on target, in a way, "you would never do such a thing" that maybe she was trying to prevent any attempts through a kind of positive reinforcement by stating that she believed in them, rather than ordering them not to. Also she may have figured out from the type of injury Lennier suffered that "something" had happened and was trying to prevent any other attempts. I think she knew Lennier would be seeking out trouble to stop it, because it's his nature to do that, so if Lennier was injured finding something she could deduce it.

    Basically, I'm picking all three. Delenn did believe what she was saying because she does see what's best in everyone, but she isn't blind to when someone isn't their best and was trying to put a positive reinforcement to influence them not to try again while counting on Lennier to head off the attempt, as he did.
    Last edited by Marsden; 06-16-2012, 03:00 PM.

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  • JoeD80
    replied
    That episode is from season five, "The Corps Is Mother, The Corps Is Father"

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  • Tacoboy
    replied
    spaced mundane

    There is a B5 episode, where at the end, Bester has a assistant female Pci cop that spaces a mundane.
    Which episode was that?

    Leave a comment:


  • Jonas
    replied
    I think that scene shows that Delenn can be overly idealistic in a way; she has her own illusions about her caste, much like Neroon has about his. That doesn't mean she's blind to all flaws, but she could never imagine the sort of thing that almost happened. Lennier is quite right in his assessment of her.

    I think this fits in rather well with the show's very ambiguous depiction of Minbari religion.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jan
    replied
    Originally posted by WorkerCaste View Post
    1) Delenn absolutely believed what she was saying, and Lennier was correct that she was living in another world.

    2) Delenn knew the members of her caste had the same sort of doubts and was manipulating them by showing she thought the best of them in hopes they would rise to the occasion. Then, Lennier was blinded by his love for Delenn and believed what he said, not understanding what she was doing.

    3) They both understood that the doubts existed, and both were using the opportunity to influence them to a better outcome.

    Personally, I think it's number 2. What do you guys think? Is there another option I missed?
    I'm going to go with option 3. While Lennier is deeply in love with Delenn, as her attache', a lot of his job would entail the kind of misdirection that would be necessary on a day-to-day basis in Minbari society.

    Which isn't to say that I think Delenn would have discussed it with Lennier, I don't. She was playing things very close to the vest right then and he might have gotten wind of her plans if she'd talked to him too much.

    Jan

    Leave a comment:


  • WorkerCaste
    replied
    I'm rewatching the series and just watched "Rumors, Lies and Bragains" and from the very first time I saw this, I had a question. I've got my opinion on the answer, but I was wondering what others though.

    After the warrior attacks Neroon, Delenn addresses the Religious caste members telling them that they are her rock, and that she knows something like the attack on Neroon would never happen among their caste. Later Lennier tells them that Delenn doesn't live in the same world as they do.

    So, the question occurred to me, how much do they think they are speaking the truth, and how correct are they? I see 3 basic possibilities:

    1) Delenn absolutely believed what she was saying, and Lennier was correct that she was living in another world.

    2) Delenn knew the members of her caste had the same sort of doubts and was manipulating them by showing she thought the best of them in hopes they would rise to the occasion. Then, Lennier was blinded by his love for Delenn and believed what he said, not understanding what she was doing.

    3) They both understood that the doubts existed, and both were using the opportunity to influence them to a better outcome.

    Personally, I think it's number 2. What do you guys think? Is there another option I missed?

    Leave a comment:


  • Garibaldi's Hair
    replied
    Originally posted by Marsden View Post
    Did JMS ever pin this down, or did he just leave it as is?
    <Kosh>Yes</Kosh>

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  • Marsden
    replied
    I have a Thirdspace question. Lurker's guide says:

    This story took place after the Shadow War, but before the declaration of war against Earth. That puts it between "Into the Fire" and "Moments of Transition."
    Other clues allow it to be placed more precisely. It took place after "The Illusion of Truth" because that was the last time Zack wore his Earth Alliance uniform. Just after Zack was fitted with his new uniform in "Atonement," Delenn greeted Callenn and told him she'd be ready to leave for Minbar in one day, less than the amount of time elapsed in this story (Sheridan remarked to Trent that she'd had five days to examine the artifact.) It couldn't have taken place after "Atonement" since Dr. Franklin left in that episode before Delenn returned; the two of them weren't on the station at the same time again until after the declaration of war.

    That puts "Thirdspace" between the first and second scenes of "Atonement" (a slight inconsistency since Callenn's ship can be seen to arrive in the opening shot, before Zack's fitting) unless Zack's visit to the Minbari tailors wasn't the first time he wore the uniform. If his visit was just an adjustment, possibly a result of being in fistfights in "Thirdspace," the story takes place between "The Illusion of Truth" and "Atonement."

    Did JMS ever pin this down, or did he just leave it as is?

    Leave a comment:


  • Marsden
    replied
    Well, time for one of my strange questions. The White Stars had a Vorlon technology, a capability to learn and react to damage. Ok. Then do you think Sheridan had Delta squadron go "beat up" all the fresh new White Stars so they would learn from it? Just sayin'

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  • Marsden
    replied
    I think the Vorlons may also be depleted from the "Thirdspace" debacle, they lost a lot of their people to that one. And I get the impression that to the Vorlons it was recent even though to us it would have been long ago. (A million years might just be a "generation" ago by Vorlon standards)
    Last edited by Marsden; 03-09-2012, 06:54 AM.

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