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  • #76
    Originally posted by AislingGrey
    You might want to read the Psi Corp trilogy if you're interested to know about this...



    I think that was an incredibly effective scene, too. Attesting to the power of the imagery, I felt much the same watching the World Trade Center collapse on television back in September of 2001. A feeling of sick horror, and and the dull weight of inevitability.

    Aisling
    I try and stay away from books like these especially when a series or movie series still active. People tend to meld the books with the actual series. The creators like JMS, Roddenberry, Lucas and others always like to keep them separate and never like to mix the two storylines. I would rather JMS do a miniseries or a tv movie on some of these things. Because it will come directly from him.

    As for comparison to the WTC atrocity... there is no comparison since I was only 6 blocks away from the towers. My coworkers saw people jumping out of the 100th floors. And my friend Wendy was in the north tower at the time. Its a day I will never forget. None of us will forget. The smell, the sound of the planes crashing into the towers, and feeling the building I work in shake. No there is no comparison.
    The Eagle stood erect on the Mountain watched the ships arrive.

    Comment


    • #77
      The creators like JMS, Roddenberry, Lucas and others always like to keep them separate and never like to mix the two storylines.
      JMS wrote the outlines for the three Del Rey B5 trilogies, which are considered "canon" and weave in and out of the 5 year arc of the show, including intersections with individual episodes. The Shadow Within tells the story of Anna Sheridan, Morden, the Icarus, the expedition to Z'ha'dum and the mission that caused John Sheridan to miss his rendezvous with Anna. JMS assigned this plot to the author and answered questions as she was writing it. To Dream in the City of Sorrows was written by Kathryn M. Drennan who wrote the first season episode "By Any Means Necessary" and who also happens to be married to JMS. It also fits directly into the narrative.

      Regardless of what other series creators may have done with books based on their films or shows (and Gene R. never had any say in what Paramount did with the Trek novels) JMS has used the most recent books precisely to tell stories "off screen" that couldn't be told or one reason or another within the main body of the show. (The earlier novels from Dell, with the execption of the two mentioned above which were reissued by Del Rey, are another matter. All the later novels were released after B5 has stopped production.)

      Regards,

      Joe
      Joseph DeMartino
      Sigh Corps
      Pat Tallman Division

      Comment


      • #78
        Just finished watching the commentaries on "In the Beginning", and after the credits roll, there is a quite strange picture on the screen. Did anyone else notice that?

        Now, I usually don't buy R1-releases, so hell, that could be about anything and I just simply don't know about it (even if I didn't notice such a thing with "The Gathering"). Or it could have already been there when the movie was shown on TV. Anyway, just wanted to know if anyone here knows more about that strange screen.

        You can find a screenshot here.
        Last edited by cornholio1980; 08-25-2004, 09:22 AM.

        Comment


        • #79
          Looks like the FBI warning in some Asian language. Don't think it means anything.

          Walking Eagle,

          Joe is right. "To Dream in the City Sorrows," "The Shadow Within," The Centauri Trilogy, The Psi-Corps Trilogy, and The Techno-mage Trilogy are all considered "canon" in the B5 universe and thus must be answered to in any series or film. This per JMS.

          They are great reads and very informative. I highly recommend them.

          As for the SW novels...hate to tell you, though GL himself may ignore certain aspects when he wishes because of his lack of imagination and ability to write to what's already established (for a good example of this watch the pre-quels and the newest round of re-cuts when the OT is released on DVD), but the SW novels, per GL, are considered "canon" within the SW universe and should be answered to in any other incarnations. I know that the novelists are very good at following continuity and being true to what's already been established.

          Heh! If only they were writing the pre-quels. Heh!

          CE
          Anthony Flessas
          Writer/Producer/Director,
          SP Pictures


          I have no avatar! I walk in mystery and need nothing to represent who and what I am!

          Comment


          • #80
            As for comparison to the WTC atrocity... there is no comparison since I was only 6 blocks away from the towers. My coworkers saw people jumping out of the 100th floors. And my friend Wendy was in the north tower at the time. Its a day I will never forget. None of us will forget. The smell, the sound of the planes crashing into the towers, and feeling the building I work in shake. No there is no comparison.
            First off, what Joe said about the books.

            As for the WTC, let's not compare sad stories. I never said that the scene in A Call To Arms was comparable, or as horrible as what happened that day in New York. For the record - and I really wish this hadn't turned to one-upmanship - I'm a (displaced) New Yorker, and have plenty of people right in the area of the attack. I have friends who escaped from both towers, people who were as close as across the street who had to flee for their lives...and, we lost someone in one of them.

            What I said was that the scene in ACTA gave _me_ the same feelings I had when I watched the towers come down. That it was something that _I_ felt. It was personal. It was about how the scene in ACTA made _me_ feel. Not a comparison of the magnitude of actual to fictional events.

            Aisling

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by colonyearth
              Looks like the FBI warning in some Asian language. Don't think it means anything.
              Thats a good explanation. I also checked the Gathering again, and the screen indeed showed up there - so I was mistaken about that.

              Still kinda odd to include that warning only in an asian language...

              Comment


              • #82
                << but the SW novels, per GL, are considered "canon" within the SW universe and should be answered to in any other incarnations. I know that the novelists are very good at following continuity and being true to what's already been established.>>

                Actually, canon in SW only includes the films, their novelizations and the radio dramatizations, in that order. Anything that contradicts in those three is overridden by the higher source. For example, in the The Empire Strikes Back novelization, Yoda is blue. Obviously he is green in the film, hence it is canon that he is green. In the A New Hope novelization, Palpatine is referred to as "president," but we see the actual name of the post is "supreme chancellor" in the prequels. So the latter is canon.

                The novels, comics, games and other media are considered "official," and must follow canon and stay within each other's continuity, but they have made many mistakes over the years and ignored some aspects. The novel Tatooine Ghost is a great example.

                Lastly, there is "apocrypha." This includes some children's books, some games and certain aspects of some novels. Sort of "K, you read this book and everything is official, but the fact that (so and so) did (this or that) doesn't count."

                Three or four years ago, LucasLicensing modifed the system by coming up with the "Infinity" thing. Basically, anything that occurs in any SW story "happened" but if it contradicts the films, it is "Infinity."

                But you can bet Lucas doesn't consider anything but the films, novelizations and radio as canon. It was just a money-making venture, while the "true" story is left to him to tell.
                Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino
                  JMS wrote the outlines for the three Del Rey B5 trilogies, which are considered "canon" and weave in and out of the 5 year arc of the show, including intersections with individual episodes. The Shadow Within tells the story of Anna Sheridan, Morden, the Icarus, the expedition to Z'ha'dum and the mission that caused John Sheridan to miss his rendezvous with Anna. JMS assigned this plot to the author and answered questions as she was writing it. To Dream in the City of Sorrows was written by Kathryn M. Drennan who wrote the first season episode "By Any Means Necessary" and who also happens to be married to JMS. It also fits directly into the narrative.

                  Regardless of what other series creators may have done with books based on their films or shows (and Gene R. never had any say in what Paramount did with the Trek novels) JMS has used the most recent books precisely to tell stories "off screen" that couldn't be told or one reason or another within the main body of the show. (The earlier novels from Dell, with the execption of the two mentioned above which were reissued by Del Rey, are another matter. All the later novels were released after B5 has stopped production.)

                  Regards,

                  Joe
                  That is what is called in the industry a "bible". For me personally, I consider a story "true" when it is written by the creator himself (or herself if a show is created by a woman).
                  The Eagle stood erect on the Mountain watched the ships arrive.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    A series "bible" is the document that lays out who all of the key players are, their relationships, the way the series universe works, physical details, etc. etc., so that other writers besides the creator can write episodes (or novels, etc.) for the series. An outline for specific novels isn't the same as a "bible."

                    Aisling

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      hey Joe,

                      Is JMS still married to Kathryn Drennan? I though she was his ex-wife.
                      Marco

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by WalkingEagle
                        That is what is called in the industry a "bible". For me personally, I consider a story "true" when it is written by the creator himself (or herself if a show is created by a woman).
                        Well, take it from JMS' own mouth...the books mentioned are, indeed, "canon." JMS himself remains true to what is in those books.

                        CE
                        Anthony Flessas
                        Writer/Producer/Director,
                        SP Pictures


                        I have no avatar! I walk in mystery and need nothing to represent who and what I am!

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          JMS himself remains true to what is in those books.
                          But he doesn't consider himself 100% bound to every single detail presented in each of the books. If the opportunity presents itself to depict on-screen something that was described in the books, or that logically follows from the books, he holds himself free to make changes or even reject details - in which case what is on-screen will take precedence over what was written earlier. But until and unless he does so, what's in the books is "true". (Heck, he did the same with his own stuff: In "Points of Departure" it is strongly implied that mining an asteroid belt and sending a fake distress signal was a matter of deliberate strategy that destroyed several Minbari ships. Compare In the Beginning where it becomes a desparate gamble that takes out a single Minbari ship and barely allows Sheridan to escape after the rest of the Human fleet is wiped out. In "Points" there is no mention of any Human losses at all - and Ivanova implies that the details of Sheridan's action were kept secret, because even in 2259 she still doesn't know them. She must have amnesia because the 17 or 18 year old Susan Ivanova must have seen them over and over again on the networks while awaiting her induction into EarthForce. )

                          Regards,

                          Joe
                          Joseph DeMartino
                          Sigh Corps
                          Pat Tallman Division

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Yeah, yeah...technical, technical. I'm trying to convince WE to read the books and you're not being any help!

                            Joe...my contrary friend.

                            CE
                            Anthony Flessas
                            Writer/Producer/Director,
                            SP Pictures


                            I have no avatar! I walk in mystery and need nothing to represent who and what I am!

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              &quot;what's canon&quot;

                              That question would take me hours to answer...more of it is now
                              than was before, because I started to get more hands-on with it.
                              Certainly the new novels from Del Rey that I'm writing the outlines for
                              are canonical, the Drennan novel is nearly all canonical, much of the
                              Cavelos novel is canon, and so on.
                              http://jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-1232
                              > Joe, Which of the paperback books is true to the story?

                              The Drennan book, just hitting the stands now, is 100% canon;
                              the Cavelos book, out for a bit now, is about 90% canon. (Those are
                              books 7 and 9.)
                              http://jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-2953

                              >Who's writing the Technomage Trilogy? Are you getting/did you get
                              >manuscripts for the Psi-Corp, Centauri, and Technomage trilogies to ensure
                              >they're canon?

                              Jeanne Cavelos, and yes, they're all run past me and our reference editor,
                              Fiona Avery.
                              http://jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-481

                              > Hey, has anyone finished the new B5 book "The Shadow Within"?
                              > (Or can we?

                              The story of the Icarus as presented in this book is considered
                              canon.
                              http://jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-2683
                              This last quote would mean that is John Sheridan's story in the book that is not completely canon.
                              A historical note: Jeanne Cavelos had the idea for the "Shadow Within" book on her own, not from an outline by JMS. She did however review many details with JMS and did her best to make the story faithful to the series, thus it is (90%) canon. (Check the "Author speaks" section at the page for that novel at the Lurker's Guide for the details. Skip the synopsis and read the book!

                              The 3 trilogies (Technomage, Telepath, Centauri) and "To Dream in the City of Sorrows" and "The Shadow Within" are not only canonical (in the broad strokes), but good novels on their own merit.
                              The authors did a quite good job on fleshing out the outline that JMS gave and stay true to the story of B5 as a whole.
                              Such... is the respect paid to science that the most absurd opinions may become current, provided they are expressed in language, the sound of which recalls some well-known scientific phrase
                              James Clerk Maxwell (1831-79)

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by cornholio1980
                                Just finished watching the commentaries on "In the Beginning", and after the credits roll, there is a quite strange picture on the screen. Did anyone else notice that?

                                Now, I usually don't buy R1-releases, so hell, that could be about anything and I just simply don't know about it (even if I didn't notice such a thing with "The Gathering"). Or it could have already been there when the movie was shown on TV. Anyway, just wanted to know if anyone here knows more about that strange screen.

                                You can find a screenshot here.
                                It says: "If you copy this product and sell it to a third party, the ancient forfathers will take all your libido stamina away so that neither [endangered] rhinoceros horn, [endangered]whale penis, reindeer antlers or Viagra will make it possible for you to ever, ever, conceive a child or even make a woman happy."

                                Really!

                                /IamS
                                Interstellar Alliance - Sweden's largest Babylon 5-club
                                http://www.babcon.org/

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