Third age of mankind question....

[Daniel]

Hello dear dwellers,

I've been following B5 since Lyta stepped into the station in 2257.
The fact that the show had stayed in my brain for so long is an indication of how much more it is than just a show.

A though came to me a few days ago and perhaps you could help me to sort it out.

In season 1 narration Sincalir is speaking of the "third age of of mankind",
however, we hear again about the third age when Sheridan speaks to Delenn in "into the fire", stating the the third age (being independent in space, free of influences from manipulating powers) has began.
but since Sinclair has already left to the past, how could he had known about it?
options that I'm thinking of are:
1) the narration is just a narration, dont be a silly about it, its symbolic.
2) Sinclair did know about the Shadows and Vorlons, knew that we are in the "second age" and that that the third age will follow eventually. (although he couldn't know where are we in the cycle... it could have taken 10,000 years more)
3) Sinclair came back, at some point. and the narration for season 1 is actually spoken from way further in the timeline.

well, I'll be happy to hear your thoughts...

cheers from Israel. all the best to you guys and girls, I'll see you around.

Ronny

[Jan]

Hi Ronny, and welcome!

Nothing silly about your question at all. It's one of the many things that started out 'in the beginning' but wasn't resolved until (in this case) the very end.

If you think back to 'Sleeping in Light', you'll remember that the narrator thanks various people for funding because the B5 we saw was more or less a documentary. That was why all of the opening sequences were in past tense, even Londo's in 'The Gathering'.

Of course 'Deconstruction of Falling Stars' doesn't quite fit with that, being a glimpse *way* into the future after the events on B5 but I've always thought of it as being a 'paper' assigned by a Professer of Interstellar Sudies that slipped into the master set.

Thanks for joining us!
Jan

[JoeD80]

I think the question is how did Sinclair know what the Third Age was when Sheridan didn't name it until 2261 after Babylon 4 had already returned to the past. ISN likely captured his interview before he became Valen so I figure Sinclair is just a very perceptive individual that saw himself going to the past to fight Shadows as being a part of the coming Third Age, but he perhaps saw that age as just a coming of peace.

[Jan]

That's interesting, Joe. I just figured that the whole documentary was a recreation of events so that the Sinclair voice-over was an actor. Kinda bends the mind thinking of a documentary in a fictional universe using fictional actors to recreate future fictional history.

I think I just made myself dizzy...

Jan

[Marsden]

Wow. I never even gave this a thought. I figured the music/intro/credits in the begining were just something to help get you to watch the show. In any other show it wouldn't be worth asking but with the great detail B5 had, it's a good question. But stepping back, Londo made the first intro in The Gathering, so how would he have known? Well, Peter David answered that question in his Legions of Fire book trilogy and the answer reinforces Jan's first answer that it's a documentary as is shown in the very end of Sleeping In Light. I don't think Deconstruction of Falling Stars contradicts that, only that those periods viewed in that episode are before the documentary is made, maybe by those encounter suited rangers that relocated to New Earth after the Sun went Boom.

Remember, no boom today, Boom tomorrow.

[JoeD80]

I figured the visuals were actors, but the narrations were from interviews. It's from Joe's early notes on the show:

We learn eventually that this is a documentary produced after the deaths of all involved. (So narratives would be in past tense?) Assume they were interviewed at various points, possibly use that for narrative

I don't think Deconstruction of Falling Stars contradicts that, only that those periods viewed in that episode are before the documentary is made, maybe by those encounter suited rangers that relocated to New Earth after the Sun went Boom.

In the script for Sleeping in Light the date for the documentary is 2295. I figure Deconstruction is just a separate creation for the Rangers to take to New Earth.

[Daniel]

The narration being a documentary is a good thought. It still leave some logic loops. what is real and what is fabricated from interpretation from long lost political figures?
I think the definition of "third age" is too specific so it is either John hearing it from Jeffrey or the other way around. Since i think it was John who had the better motivation to "invent" it, it is also possible that Valen came back and gave an interview (although unlikely, such an interview would shatter the Minbari society). This leaves us with either time traveling ISN reporters or going back to the documentry being a manipulation and realizing that some of what we see might be just a version of the truth (and what is truth anyway?). well...

[DGTWoodward]

Or that the whole story was origianlly meant to unfold with Sinclair in charge throughout...? Hence the shadow was would have ended and he would still have been there to make the statement 'past tense'.

[Jan]

Or that the whole story was origianlly meant to unfold with Sinclair in charge throughout...? Hence the shadow was would have ended and he would still have been there to make the statement 'past tense'.

That's a good point, especially since at the time that voiceover was recorded, JMS likely still intended for Sinclair to be in command for the full run.

One other thing occurred to me - in "Space, Time and the Incurable Romantic", it was disclosed that...

(spoiler for the short story)

...the Minbari had a way to record the thoughts or personality (forget which) of people. Depending on when they discovered it, it might have been a genuine recording.

Maybe somebody could check out the story?

Jan

[Marsden]

Or that the whole story was origianlly meant to unfold with Sinclair in charge throughout...? Hence the shadow was would have ended and he would still have been there to make the statement 'past tense'.

Well, Londo did say that "under the last commander of Babylon 5" referring to Sinclair in the intro to The Gathering.

[Andrew_Swallow]

History books record generals giving a speech to their troops before going into battle. In almost all cases the speech was written by a historian years after the fight. This just means that historians mistreated Sinclair in the normal way.

[JoeD80]

Well, Londo did say that "under the last commander of Babylon 5" referring to Sinclair in the intro to The Gathering.

Ah, but Sinclair still was the last Commander, because Sheridan was Captain

[Marsden]

Oh. Very good. Pedantic but good. I salute you. (also, JMS edited that out with the new version.)


Actually, Ivanova could have been a Commander of Bablyon 5 under that definition.