An error in severed dreams

[Dipper]

I don't know if this has been covered, but I still have to ask:

Is there an error in the battle scene where Sheridan tells Corwin to concenrate all defensive fire to Roanoke, but on the side of the ship that is being fired upon it says Agrippa. Which I believe was rammed by Churchill half a minute before.


I know, this must be the most useless thread ever, but still it's bugging me.


-Dip

[bakana]

# About Sheridan asking the Roanoke to surrender
Yeah...the reference was kafuffled. There was so much going on, so many EFX shots, so much rearranging of shots to make everything work (we literally delivered this 2 hours before the process for uplinking started) that this slipped past.
I'll assume that Sheridan got excited and said the wrong name.
It'd happen to anyone. Right? Right?
jms

Some other stuff from that same episode, just to get the thread going.

#

Something to bear in mind when rewatching, btw...it was during this scene that Jerry fell and broke his right arm and right wrist. And they still had one last scene to film. He stuck it out and they rolled film, to get the shot of him and Zack at the end of the fight. Next time you watch it, keep an eye on the right arm as he releases the helmet...it bends in directions never intended by evolution.

# I agree, but Jerry was determined to do it, and more time would've been lost arguing about it than it took to do the takes.

# The arm broken was his right arm and wrist; we worked it into the show, in a way which actually worked well with what went right before it. Jerry's doing fine now.

# Oddly enough, Jerry's broken arm tied *beautifully* into something that had happened in the course of the episode we were filming, so all it took was a line or two to sell it.

The funny thing is...in the very next episode after the incident, there was a line in the script I'd written *weeks* earlier, and it freaked everybody out...when Garibaldi asks someone to do something, and the person responds, "What, you've got a broken arm or something?" At first some people thought I'd put it in there to pink Jerry, but it'd been there the whole time. Similarly, in the Claudia incident, there was a line (cut for time) where Sheridan says talking to the Drazi is like trying to talk to your right foot...and Ivanova replies "I'll have you know I have a sublime relationship with my right foot." Yep, the next day...that's the foot she broke.

Just recently, I was trying to explain time travel to one of the actors. I used the analogy, over lunch, "Suppose you finished eating your chicken here, then got sick as a dog a few hours later, then got in a time machine to go back in time and warn yourself not to eat the chicken." Well, a few hours after that...the actor got sick as a dog from the chicken.

I have been asked, expressly, not to make any further mention of actors' body parts in scripts....

# We shot that last scene with Garibaldi *after* we'd shot the sequence showing his injured leg. We don't shoot in sequence. So we had to cover it in the next episode.

# We shot the last scene with the cane *before* we shot the scene in which Jerry broke his arm. It costs way too much to go back and reshoot. At the time we shot the later scene, he hadn't yet broken his arm.

[nanorc]

Yeah, I noticed a few inconsistancies in that episode too. For one thing, the first wave consists of two omega class cruisers and two smaller, Hyperion class cruisers (I think thats what theyre called) and at least one boarding vessel. One thing: Once the battle starts, we never see the hyperion class ships again. They are entirely absent from the big battle scene.

A few minor gripes: Those turrets were really lame, everytime they cut to them I couldnt help feeling embarassed. The music was, at times, a real downer too, at times it just sounded corny and gung go. The lousy ppg effects didn't do much for the atmosphere either. Prob the lamest thing about Severed Dreams was the melee combat in Grey sector towards the end. You could easily spot a few rifle butts that completely missed their mark, yet the target fell down anyways.

One question: Why does the commander of the second wave have the exact same voice as the one of the first wave? And why the heck is that the EXACT SAME VOICE as the man talking to Londo over the link about pest control in Sic Transit Vir!?

[nanorc]

Yeah, here are all the glitches, according to the lurkers guide:

Minor effects mismatch: A group of Starfuries attacks a friendly destroyer. Its name is clearly visible as the Churchill. But the scene immediately cuts to Major Ryan reacting to the hit -- even though he's on the Alexander, not the Churchill. (See jms speaks)

Just after Major Ryan says, "Right down their throats," a Starfury shoots another one with B5 in the background. For one frame, the exploding Starfury is replaced with a bright yellow square; then the explosion replaces it.

Four ships emerge from the jumpgate at the end of act three, two Omega-class destroyers and two older Hyperion-style heavy cruisers ("A Voice In the Wilderness, part 2.") But we only see and hear about two, the Agrippa and the Roanoke. One possible explanation is that the destroyer rammed by the Churchill isn't supposed to be the Roanoke; since Sheridan offers assistance to the Roanoke at the end of the battle, that's plausible. However, the rammed ship's name is (barely) visible as "Roanoke" during the collision.

[grumbler]

Re: An error in severed dreams

Originally posted by Dipper
I don't know if this has been covered, but I still have to ask:

Is there an error in the battle scene where Sheridan tells Corwin to concenrate all defensive fire to Roanoke, but on the side of the ship that is being fired upon it says Agrippa. Which I believe was rammed by Churchill half a minute before.

Yep, several minor errors like that got through because everything was so rushed due to the scale of the CGI required. For instance, Churchill is shown being hit by a Starfury blast, but the reaction comes from the bridge crew of the Alexander.

There is a list of those kinds of things somewhere - I think there were several more examples just in this episode. Nothing too glaring, though.

[nanorc]

Is there an echo in the building?

[bakana]

Well, one of the things JMS admits is that he doesn't Do Violence well.

That's why so many of the Fight Scenes are truncated.

Particularly, jms says he is constitutionally incapable of writing a scene where a Woman takes a punch.
He just can't do it.
That's why Ivanova's brawls take place offscreen for the most part.
Even though she Wins.

That's all right with me. If I want to watch a fist fight, I'll go buy a copy of
Any Which Way But Loose

Besides, I LOVE Right Turn Clyde .

[nanorc]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bakana

Particularly, jms says he is constitutionally incapable of writing a scene where a Woman takes a punch.
He just can't do it.


You absolutely, positively sure about that dude? It would be interesting to read the exact text of that statement.....

Though I can think of at least one instance that contradicts the above claim, namely: In S5, when Lochley decks Lyta (BAAAAM). That was a damn good punch!

Another woman beater scene he wrote was in the Home Guard ep. in season 1, where some Minbari religious figure gets stabbed deep in the torso. Thats a heck of a lot worse than a punch in my book.

Not to mention Delenn getting every single nerve and synapsis fried in Comes the Inquisitor.

Edit: And why shouldn't we have women getting the living #%& beat outta em in B5? For sentamental reasons???? Alot of crazy "#%& happens in rl, and damned if its not discrimination to only let the men get the #%& beat outta em and not the women. Talk about TV world. Hell, he sure ain't shy about doing much, much worse things in his stories...

[chaostaenzer]

Another woman beater scene he wrote was in the Home Guard ep. in season 1, where some Minbari religious figure gets stabbed deep in the torso. Thats a heck of a lot worse than a punch in my book.

That episode (The War Prayer) was actually written by D.C. Fontana.

[nanorc]

Yeah well Lyta got sucker punched so my point stands.

[bakana]

You absolutely, positively sure about that dude? It would be interesting to read the exact text of that statement.....

I believe jms posted it on GEnie back while the series was being filmed.
There are more than 6 years worth of posts there.
Good luck finding that one specific post.

Here is an excerpt from one of his posts that tends to reveal Why JMS has problems with violence toward women.
He evidently witnessed it First Hand as a kid.

On Twilight Zone, I wrote an episode called "Acts of Terror" that concerned wife beating... something with which I'm more familiar than I ever wanted to be, due to some things in my family's history.
It was a terrible and painful experience to write that script; it hurt and angered me beyond the capacity to explain it to you.
I fought desperately to make it true.

Flash forward.
That episode is now used in many counseling sessions for battered wives, to help them deal with their anger and find their own self-worth.
I've received literally dozens of letters from people about that one episode, many from women who finally found it in their hearts to leave an abusive situation.

jms

[nanorc]

I believe jms posted it on GEnie back while the series was being filmed.
There are more than 6 years worth of posts there.
Good luck finding that one specific post.

What the....

Ha! Yeah right. Interesting, maybe. But not that interesting, if it even exists. I wasn't the one trying to establish the policy here anyways : /