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  • #46
    Originally posted by alpha128 View Post
    Yes, that incident occurred during the filming of Between the Darkness and the Light. During the scene where Garibaldi and Franklin jump the guards in the tunnel, Rick Biggs accidentally split open the stuntman's eye! That footage is actually in the episode.
    WOW! I bet he felt bad.
    Susan Ivanova, "I'll be in the car."

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Looney View Post
      WOW! I bet he felt bad.
      In Jane Killick's 1998 book on Season Four, director David Eagle was quoted as saying:

      Rick is a very physically well-built guy, he exercises, he's very muscular, he's very strong. He just let this stuntman have it. He didn't mean to, but he decked him. He knocked him unconscious. There's blood all over the place; I thought the guy was going to lose his eye, I mean, it was a very serious injury. This poor stuntman had to go to the hospital. Rick was just devastated by it; he was very upset.

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      • #48
        Sad story. I hope it turned out okay in the end. I know stunt people are always aware injury is a possibility, but that is still a terrible situation. Stunt people plan to make things safe, but accidents happen.
        Susan Ivanova, "I'll be in the car."

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        • #49
          Oh noes, poor Rick and stuntguy! That would feel so terrible. ;(

          On a lighter note, I found rereading this old thread I started waaay back in 2010 quite amusing. I have grown a lot since those days and I now love Dr. Franklin. I greatly enjoy all his scenes. And I love believers!

          One thing I noticed about Dr. Franklin during the Shadow War, when Sheridan ordered Stephen to load up those comatose telepaths and use them as cannon fodder, it seemed out of character for him to obey. I mean if he wouldn't allow his medical notes to be used against the Minbari during a war when the Minbari wanted to exterminate them, but he was okay with sacrificing the lives of those telepaths.

          But maybe this is a sign of character growth, that Stephen had come to realize that sometimes you have to do things you don't want to for the greater good. Or maybe because the difference was a few hundred telepaths compared with an entire race? The stakes were much bigger in the Minbari war though.

          And also Stephen had always shown great sympathy and compassion for the telepaths and had helped them whenever he could.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Delenn_of_Mir View Post
            One thing I noticed about Dr. Franklin during the Shadow War, when Sheridan ordered Stephen to load up those comatose telepaths and use them as cannon fodder, it seemed out of character for him to obey. I mean if he wouldn't allow his medical notes to be used against the Minbari during a war when the Minbari wanted to exterminate them, but he was okay with sacrificing the lives of those telepaths.

            But maybe this is a sign of character growth, that Stephen had come to realize that sometimes you have to do things you don't want to for the greater good. Or maybe because the difference was a few hundred telepaths compared with an entire race? The stakes were much bigger in the Minbari war though.

            And also Stephen had always shown great sympathy and compassion for the telepaths and had helped them whenever he could.
            I think the key there is that he knew there was nothing medical science could do to help them. They were going to remain in that state and never have the chance to be awakened without the horrors that consciousness would bring. I'm sure he made the decision that it was better their lives come to an end in the service of the greater good rather than remaining in a state of living death.

            And yes I definitely think it is character growth, but I also don't think it is quite the same thing as what happened during he Minbari War. Keep in mind when he refused to turn over his notes to make weapons to fight the Minbari Earth was losing the war, but this was before the Minbari were actually at Earth's front door. Plus we're talking about creating weapons that would take lives. Franklin probably saw the Telepaths as basically already being dead because there was nothing current medical science could do for them.

            Of course your argument is very valid because you have to assume that up to the point of The Battle of The Line starting he was being asked to turn over his notes. He had to know the fate of the entire human race was at stake. Or maybe not. Maybe he was stuck in prison and left to rot. Maybe he was forgotten about. Maybe by the time The Battle of The Line started the powers that be knew there was nothing much Franklin's knowledge could do to help them. That is a REALLY interesting question. Did Franklin even know The Battle of The Line was happening? Did he know humanity was on the cusp of extinction and he still did nothing? Hmmmmm . . . . Does anyone know JMS' thoughts on this? Has he said what happened with Franklin after he refused to turn over his notes?
            Last edited by Looney; 04-12-2017, 10:39 PM.
            Susan Ivanova, "I'll be in the car."

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Looney View Post
              I think the key there is that he knew there was nothing medical science could do to help them. They were going to remain in that state and never have the chance to be awakened without the horrors that consciousness would bring. I'm sure he made the decision that it was better their lives come to an end in the service of the greater good rather than remaining in a state of living death.

              And yes I definitely think it is character growth, but I also don't think it is quite the same thing as what happened during he Minbari War. Keep in mind when he refused to turn over his notes to make weapons to fight the Minbari Earth was losing the war, but this was before the Minbari were actually at Earth's front door. Plus we're talking about creating weapons that would take lives. Franklin probably saw the Telepaths as basically already being dead because there was nothing current medical science could do for them.
              That thought process sounds reasonable. (nods head)

              Originally posted by Looney View Post
              Of course your argument is very valid because you have to assume that up to the point of The Battle of The Line starting he was being asked to turn over his notes. He had to know the fate of the entire human race was at stake. Or maybe not. Maybe he was stuck in prison and left to rot. Maybe he was forgotten about. Maybe by the time The Battle of The Line started the powers that be knew there was nothing much Franklin's knowledge could do to help them. That is a REALLY interesting question. Did Franklin even know The Battle of The Line was happening? Did he know humanity was on the cusp of extinction and he still did nothing? Hmmmmm . . . . Does anyone know JMS' thoughts on this? Has he said what happened with Franklin after he refused to turn over his notes?
              Stephen was released from the brig to go with Sheridan to meet with the Minbari, in secret, remember. The one that Delenn set up with her Ranger friend. That got botched, really badly, and the war only got worse from there.

              I don't know what happened to him after that though, if he was sent back to prison or not.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Looney View Post
                I think the key there is that he knew there was nothing medical science could do to help them. They were going to remain in that state and never have the chance to be awakened without the horrors that consciousness would bring. I'm sure he made the decision that it was better their lives come to an end in the service of the greater good rather than remaining in a state of living death.
                The one thing I'd add to this is that there was hope that with the superior resources of Earth (and the PsiCorp) they might be rehabilitated, but that would never happen if the didn't get Earth back on the right course to start with. So either way, no hope or only hope on Earth, it fit to use them as Sheridan suggested.
                "That was the law, as set down by Valen. Three castes: worker, religious, warrior."

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Delenn_of_Mir View Post
                  Stephen was released from the brig to go with Sheridan to meet with the Minbari, in secret, remember. The one that Delenn set up with her Ranger friend. That got botched, really badly, and the war only got worse from there.

                  I don't know what happened to him after that though, if he was sent back to prison or not.
                  That's right! Thanks for jarring my memory. He was a Minbari prisoner of war after that.
                  Susan Ivanova, "I'll be in the car."

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Looney View Post
                    That's right! Thanks for jarring my memory. He was a Minbari prisoner of war after that.
                    Really? He was a POW? I've never heard anyone say that before. Was Sheridan, one, too? Hogan's Heroes in a Minbari War Camp would be funny!

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Delenn_of_Mir View Post
                      Really? Franklin was a POW? I've never heard anyone say that before. Was Sheridan, one, too? Hogan's Heroes in a Minbari War Camp would be funny!
                      I've never heard anything about Franklin being a prisoner of the Minbari. In fact, I never heard about the Minbari taking prisoners - period.

                      JMS noted about the Black Star incident:
                      Sheridan sent an EA distress signal; the Minbari were in genocidal mode, so it didn't matter to them the condition of their enemy.

                      http://jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-15369

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Looney View Post
                        That's right! Thanks for jarring my memory. He was a Minbari prisoner of war after that.
                        Not that I'm aware of? Delenn clearly orders their release in 'In the Begining' after Sheridan tells her that 'Isil'zha' is in Dukhat's sacred place.
                        "Fascism always comes in quietly, holding a flag in one hand and a holy book in the other, inching its way in. The bugles and drums only sound after they've already taken over and believe it's too late to do anything about it." JMS Twitter Dec. 24, 2017

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Jan View Post
                          Not that I'm aware of? Delenn clearly orders their release in 'In the Begining' after Sheridan tells her that 'Isil'zha' is in Dukhat's sacred place.
                          Yes I am crazy, but I am not so sure that it clearly means release them back to Earth. She says, "Let them go" (The Minbari are physically holding them.) and "There has been enough death today." I think there is wriggle room there to say she might have meant let go of their arms and don't execute them. This is complete speculation that I came up with to fill in some missing pieces. This is purely meant to be thought provoking. I am not trying to argue that these are actual facts. I am just putting my imagination out there. If you have facts that counter everything I am saying PLEASE let them fly.

                          Firstly it seems like a long stretch that they would go from executing them to flat out letting them go without any questioning. We're supposed to understand that "I know what's in Dukat's sacred place." was a safeword for Delenn that made her realize they had nothing to do with Lenonn's death. It just seems odd that they would drop the whole matter and send Sheridan and Franklin packing one minute after they were to be questioned and executed. If anything wouldn't Delenn want their minds wiped because of Sheridan's statement? Wouldn't it make the Grey Council question Delenn on the meaning of the statement, especially if she just let them go?

                          Secondly it would explain why in the face of the extinction of the human race Franklin still wouldn't turn over his notes. If he was with the Minbari he couldn't turn over his notes to save the human race. I mean we know he has strict principles, but we also know he will fight when it is time to fight. It just seems completely out of character for him to stick to those principles when it gets down to the idea that the human race might actually be extinct as The Battle of The Line came closer to being a reality.

                          Thirdly it would explain why we never heard anything about Sheridan at The Battle of The Line. Were we ever told he was there? (If so please tell me because I don't remember it. And if it is in one of the books, don't get too specific.)

                          The big counter to what I said above is if they were prisoners why didn't the Minbari use the Triluminary on them? Well I can come up with reasons, like they threw them in a hole and forgot about them or whatever. All I am trying to do is fill in some logic and gaps. Please keep in mind I haven't read all of the books yet because I am trying to hold out as long as possible. Maybe there is an explanation as to why there is no mention of Sheridan and The Battle of The Line - at least I never remember any talk about that subject in the show or movies. Please tell me if I am forgetting something else.
                          Last edited by Looney; 04-15-2017, 09:54 PM.
                          Susan Ivanova, "I'll be in the car."

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