Lennier's end and Delenn's part in it

[SmileOfTheShadow]

I don't care what Delenn did. Lennier was a creepy little bastard and he chose to walk the path that he walked, to do what he did.

Point, Dr. Maturin. haha

[KoshN]

It's really all Capt. Jankowski's fault isn't it? If he hadn't killed Dukhat, Delenn would have been able to work through her obvious crush on him, and been better able to handle the same situation with Lennier.

If Capt. Jankowski hadn't killed Dukhat, Delenn would likely have never met Lennier.

[Ranger 6 and 7/8]

good Point Doc. In the novels, don't forget, Lennier does save David, and hopes that made up for his error. I agree that Lennier was the one who mistook Delenn's gestures as romantic. As brought out, he came straight from a monastic setting to be her aid. He was such a "Orthodox" Minbari, following the letter of the law, where Delenn followed the intent. I believe he found this to be...exciting and euphoric. THen when she started seeking his input, he started misunderstanding this as having a romantic background/
Now the fault lies with both of them.
Delenn should have recognized the impropriety of the situations she placed herself and Lennier in and taken action when she saw his feeling were becoming romantic.
Lennier should have recognized the impropriety of having a relationship with her, then again when he saw that having that relationship would mean sacrificing his morals, and yet again when Morden warned him what his future held.

[DeMonk]

Basiscally Lennier crosses the line because of his selfishness: "She's mine - you can't have her!"
She's married to Sheridan. What part of that does he misunderstand? Blaming Delenn is too easy an excuse.
He is responsible and should be held accountable for his own actions.

[KoshN]

good Point Doc. In the novels, don't forget, Lennier does save David, and hopes that made up for his error.

What?!?! Garibaldi and Vir save David. (Legions of Fire - Out of the Darkness. p. 260, in 2277.).

Lennier died with Lyta, during The Telepath War, ~2264, in the bombing of Psi Corps. Headquarters (Crusade - The Path of Sorrows, Matheson's flashback.).

[Jan]

Lennier died with Lyta, during The Telepath War, ~2264, in the bombing of Psi Corps. Headquarters (Crusade - The Path of Sorrows, Matheson's flashback.).

Earlier version of the script, anyway, the one with Lyta, if she'd appeared.

Jan

[Ranger 6 and 7/8]

What?!?! Garibaldi and Vir save David. (Legions of Fire - Out of the Darkness. p. 260, in 2277.).

Lennier died with Lyta, during The Telepath War, ~2264, in the bombing of Psi Corps. Headquarters (Crusade - The Path of Sorrows, Matheson's flashback.).

I knew that..<smack forehead>. attribute that to a lengthy conversation with Captain Morgan and 3 days no sleep.
THanks for the catch KoshN. but I still stand by the rest of the point though.

[ILUVJOHNSHERIDAN]

I agree, Delenn cared for Lennier as a "little brother" nothing more. She did not lead him on. It was Lennier that didn't respect the boundries. He knew for a very long time that she had feelings for Sheridan. He lived in a fantasy world of his own making which lead to the betrayal.

[Macbeth]

Hey - go back to the Parliament of Dreams and the whole red berry marriage thing. Clearly foreshadowing with Sinclair (plot line later shifted to Sheridan).

It must have been known to the primary assistant to the top member of the religious caste that Delenn had a part of the central prophecy of his religion. Anyhow the idea that Delenn was out of bounds and had a greater destiny should have been ingrained into Lennier.

Not only does this make him selfish - it may make him a heretic.

[KoshN]

I knew that..<smack forehead>. attribute that to a lengthy conversation with Captain Morgan and 3 days no sleep.
Thanks for the catch KoshN. but I still stand by the rest of the point though.

Ye ol' demon rum.

[SmileOfTheShadow]

Oh wow. I didn't know about that earlier script. That's really interesting to know!

[KoshN]

Oh wow. I didn't know about that earlier script. That's really interesting to know!

Lyta and Lennier dying in the telepath war is also mentioned in the Crusade Writer's Bible. I have both the script and the writer's bible.

[spelldazer]

So many great responses. I'm glad I asked!

I think Lennier's downfall came about through bad decisions made by both parties. The blame lies with both Lennier and Delenn, perhaps in equal parts, but again, I wonder, how much -- if at all -- did Minbari religion contribute to the process? We seem to be judging the relationship from a "human perspective" (our own), but I'm not sure that this is correct, or at least, I'm not sure this gives us the full picture. As mentioned in this thread, there are other considerations, such as Lennier's indoctrination, Delenn's prophesied destiny, and to return to the beginning of the thread -- a mindset that expects obedience over understanding.

[Jan]

I think we only saw the tip of the iceberg when it came to Minbari society and most of that was the Religious Caste. But while it's easy to point to the fact that Minbari are only told "what you require, and no more" and that "understanding is not required, only obedience", I think that the fact that "the calling of your heart" is the one thing that can override everything from your caste to the edicts of the Grey Council is key. I think that the reason Delenn became the leader that she did was because she had the courage to follow her heart while wanting to serve her people instead of blindly following 'tradition' as so many Minbari did.

Jan

[ILUVJOHNSHERIDAN]

In Season 3 Ceremonies of Light and Dark, when Delenn is taken by Night Watch, Lennier told Marcus that he loved Delenn and knew she was meant to be with another. So he knew then that she was off limits to him. It wasn't until season 5 when Sheridan and Delenn married that he disaproved, mainly I think because Sheridan is human and that she, in Lenniers eyes should marry a Minbari. I think if she would of married a Minbari, he would of handled it better. Just saying.