Vir

[James TX]

In the Lost Tales, Galen says that in 20 years Prince Vintari would become Emperor. Did JMS ever say what would happen to Vir? We know he became emperor himself, but it must not have been a very long reign - less than 20 years.

[FuryPilot]

In the Lost Tales, Galen says that in 20 years Prince Vintari would become Emperor. Did JMS ever say what would happen to Vir? We know he became emperor himself, but it must not have been a very long reign - less than 20 years.

Slight correction: Galen said that if Sheridan didn't intervene Vintari would become Emperor. We don't know what the timeline looks like now.

FP

[Morden]

Maybe that would have been explored as an ongoing thread in some episodes of the anthology format if more Lost Tales would have been produced. Without that possibility, we might never know.
According to what we have seen/heard onscreen, I guess we can assume that Vintaris attack on Earth should not take place.
That said, I once assumed that the "War without end"-topic surrounding B4 was (gladly, in my opinion) the only time travel element in the B5-saga, according to some of JMS' statements in the past, but IIRC, he altered that view in some comments posted during the time Lost Tales sold well on DVD...

[James TX]

Slight correction: Galen said that if Sheridan didn't intervene Vintari would become Emperor. We don't know what the timeline looks like now.

FP

That makes sense. If Sheridan was successful in changing Vintari enough to prevent the Earth attack, then Vintari may also lose his seeming hatred for Vir.

I wonder how JMS saw the Technomages being able to see into the future. True time travel, or more of some sort of social physics ala Asimov's Foundation and Empire books, except on an individual level, rather than a societal level?

[JoeD80]

There was a discussion on the moderated newsgroup about whether Galen had "future-predicting" technology and Joe said:

Let us remember that time travel is also a form of technology (which is all I'll say about this for now).

I submitted a question for the movie script books project asking about this statement but that one didn't appear so we didn't hear anything further on the topic AFAIK.

[Morden]

Thanks, JoeD80, that's the quote I referred to above. It's the one that stirred some discussion (here or in another forum, can't quite remeber right now) whether JMS stayed true to his previous statements that die B4-thing would be the only time travel plot point in the saga.

[ILUVJOHNSHERIDAN]

Didn't the prince say he was 3rd in line and Vir was second and that the rumor was he killed is father. If they were referring to Cartagia, I thought Londo was going to be emperior because Cartagia had no heirs?

[ILUVJOHNSHERIDAN]

Duh, I now realize what you mean that the prince would become emperor is 30 years and Londo was still alive.

[Morden]

???
Londo dies as Emperor in 2278 by the hand of G'kar, after that Vir becomes Emperor, and he still is Emperor (and healthy looking one) in 2281 (during the events of SiL).
Vintari would become Emperor ten years later or so, according to Galen's cryptic prophecy.

[ILUVJOHNSHERIDAN]

OK but clear someting up for me who was Vintari's father? Cartagia?, Lord Refa? Or is it not known?

[Jan]

Definitely Cartagia. JMS confirmed it.

Jan

[ILUVJOHNSHERIDAN]

thank you!

[Marsden]

OK but clear someting up for me who was Vintari's father? Cartagia?, Lord Refa? Or is it not known?

Definitely Cartagia. JMS confirmed it.

Jan

Then why did Londo take over? And then how does Vir get it next both times bypassing him (Vintari), and didn't the last script book say something about who is first in line to the throne because Vint was 3rd and Vir 2nd, right?

[ILUVJOHNSHERIDAN]

Londo must of taken over because Vintari had to be just a baby at the time, Vir took over because he saved Centuri Prime from the Drak. (Legion of fire book 3).

[Macbeth]

Then why did Londo take over? And then how does Vir get it next both times bypassing him (Vintari), and didn't the last script book say something about who is first in line to the throne because Vint was 3rd and Vir 2nd, right?

In a feudal society, like our own history, dynastic succession usually passes through a bloodline, but occasionally during times of great national stress (usually war or civil war) the throne passes to another family or house with the consent or actions of the other powerful house/families. Thus House Mollari who was viewed as the most powerful (thanks Shadows) and supplanted the existing ruling house.

The supplanted house/family often hangs around (there might be an execution or two of some direct heirs and a marriage or two to legitimize things) with significant influence and indirect claims to the throne.

Vir was closely associated with House Mollari (an "old and noble house"), not necessarily through blood, but by close association with Londo. I know he was separated from Londo, but he still must have been seen worthy or one of a number of potential successors to the childess Londo. Vintari, Vir, others would have been in an unofficial pool. Vir's actions with the Drakh jumped him up (probably from a ways down the list)

Just like Betty Windsor's family now runs England, they did not always, having emerged from the Hanoverian House of Brunswick