DVD custom DVD case's for B5 uk

[WRTWORTHY]

Hello all

as you know, someone made some brill DVD covers for Babylon 5,

http://www.rixgrafix.com/index_068.htm

However you could only use these covers if you had the "alpha" case's, being in the uk there no-one sold these, expect one site http://www.media-packaging.co.uk/products.php?cat=DVD

however they only ship in a bulk of 40 at a time and would cost ú60, I emailed them to see if they could do them in a pack of 10, this was the reposnse

To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 7:13 PM
Subject: Web Enquiry: Quote for Alphapak 6 DVD [NP481]

Request Details
Quote for Alphapak 6 DVD [NP481] Minimum order 40pcs. (carton qty.) Price: ú1.28 each + Delivery ú13.60
Quantity: 100 or less
I would like to get hold of about 10 of these case's, can you do sepcial order's such as this? can you deliver 10? what would be the cost? i live in the Uk

Richard

MINIMUM ORDER IS 40 CASES @ ú1.28 EACH!

DELIVERY IS ú13.60

SORRY YOU CANNOT ORDER 10 CASES.

Regards

Janine


so for anyone who was wondering, it dont look good, anyone else found anywhere that sells these?

the reason I want this so bad is becuase of the cock-up regarding the UK dvd box relase.

[bakana]

Hmmm. Are these Licensed and Legal ??

[WRTWORTHY]

legal and lit? what do u mean that?

whata re you talking about?

all we are doing is getting some diffrent DVD cover-work, and remeber i would not be doing this if they had not screwed us over with the season 4 DVD case so that it looks out of place, this way, I can make sure the Orignal Boxs stay in mint cond and still have a wonderful looking collection on my shelf

[Capt.Montoya]

The custom DVD art sets at that website are not for sale, you can download them for free and have to print them yourself. Since it isn't for profit they don't need to have a license... this should be legal under "fair use" arguments.
The website owner is just sharing some artwork for DVD collections he made for himself, he doesn't even sell the empty boxes.

BTW, the "about" page at that website has some other options for ordering cases, but I don't know if shipping to the UK is too expensive from those sources.

I think this custom art came up before in an old thread, maybe several UK people can get together to order the cases...

The artwork is quite nice. Good luck.

[WRTWORTHY]

hya all, yes it has come up in the past, but no-one has yet been able to find a UK place that sells these case's. ordering from the sites (US) is also about ú60ish, however i dont mind ordering ther bulk pack just dont know what do with the 35 other case's, lol

the artwork is brill

[Andrew_Swallow]

The alternative is to buy one of the plastic boxes that will hold all 5 seasons. We just need some kind person to develop stick on designs to decorate the box.

CD/DVD boxes at Argos

[Doktor]

WRTWORTHY, if you end up buying a load of those cases, I'll purchase 10 off you.

[Atanvarno]

Aye, I'd by another 10 off you, also.

[WRTWORTHY]

so, If i order these 40 case's

10 for my self

20 to go out to peeps

20 case's Left?

anyone else want to join in, I havenÆt worked it out fully but looking at ú15 for 10 case's + deliver, unless you live near Birmingham and I shall come and deliver them free of charge

p.s I can order in a few weeks, once pay day comes

please email me and let me know your request's etc

[Atanvarno]

Originally posted by WRTWORTHY
so, If i order these 40 case's

10 for my self

20 to go out to peeps

20 case's Left?

I think you mean 10 left. 40 - (10 + 20) = 10

please email me and let me know your request's etc

What's your e-mail address?

[AmyG]

The custom DVD art sets at that website are not for sale, you can download them for free and have to print them yourself. Since it isn't for profit they don't need to have a license... this should be legal under "fair use" arguments.

Sorry, but you're dead wrong. The fact that these DVD art sets - using trademarked images - don't cost anything when obtained from the download site has no bearing whatsoever on the sec. 107 exception to US Copyright Law ("Fair use").

First of all, _either_ use (the free downloadable ones, or the ones you can buy) is both an infringement of copyright, _and_ trademark. The copyright is being infringed because the cover sets are most likely (and please note that I haven't examined them carefully enough to be sure of this) using the text from the official WB DVD box sets. That's copyrighted material. The trademark is of course the logo, the symbols, the character images, ship images, etc. etc.

Second of all, fair use as it relates to trademark is different than fair use as it relates to copyright (and trust me, this use ain't fair under the terms of US Copyright Law - I worked enough infringement cases over enough years to say this definitively). Under trademark law, this use fails the test on at least one count: by its very professionalism and intent for the artwork to be used in connection with the official WB box sets, the creator of this unsanctioned artwork is suggesting sponsorship or endorsement by the trademark owner.

I'm sure a trademark/patent attorney could wax even more philosophical about this than I could, but in any case, these materials are certainly an infringement of copyright.

Aisling

[Capt.Montoya]

Originally posted by AislingGrey
Sorry, but you're dead wrong. The fact that these DVD art sets - using trademarked images - don't cost anything when obtained from the download site has no bearing whatsoever on the sec. 107 exception to US Copyright Law ("Fair use").
[...]
Second of all, fair use as it relates to trademark is different than fair use as it relates to copyright (and trust me, this use ain't fair under the terms of US Copyright Law - I worked enough infringement cases over enough years to say this definitively). Under trademark law, this use fails the test on at least one count: by its very professionalism and intent for the artwork to be used in connection with the official WB box sets, the creator of this unsanctioned artwork is suggesting sponsorship or endorsement by the trademark owner.

Maybe I'm wrong, but not dead.
I don't question your expertise... but you made me curious to search for more info on this, I found this page:
http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html

I'm not sure the creator of the work is suggesting sponsorship, but due to your experience on this you may be right that it can be interpreted that way. I think that you're right that the non-profit argument may not apply since that custom art is not for educational purposes. I still think it's in a gray area where the WBs attorney's could decide to treat this as infringement.
However I do think that the custom art passes the 3rd. and 4th. tests:
The "amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole" is little.

And "the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work" would be negligible. People still should buy the DVDs. This however may not be true if the availability of that custom cover art facilitates the spread of pirated copies of the DVDs.

Let me reassure you that I'm in favor of copyright, and I agree that many websites fall into unfair use while advocating fair use. I do believe many "fans" end up harming the authors or works they supposedly want to help by making material available on the internet. However I do not think that's the case here.
If you can weigh more on this I'll be interested to read your thoughts.

[AmyG]

You're confusing apples and oranges. The test I suggested the use didn't pass was with regard to fair use as it applies to _trademark law_. The page you're pointing to is about copyright law. There's no question that the alternate DVD art is an infringement of Warner's copyright if it uses the same text found on any of the official box sets.

As for the question of "is sponsorship implied?," it's a trademark issue, and it's the fact that the product is intended to look like official DVD packaging. It doesn't say in big letters anywhere (I'm assuming - again, I confess I haven't had time to scrutinize the art, I've just seen it passingly) "THIS IS NOT SANCTIONED BY WARNER BROS., AND IS AN AMATEUR, UNLICENSED EFFORT."

That matter in copyright law about fair use and the amount of the use does _not_ stand on its own, it's important to not. The test of fair use is a combination of factors, only one of which is the amount of the use in relation to the portion of the whole work. And actually in this case, I think it fails that test miserably! In order for the illegal artwork to be at all useful to folks who own the DVD sets, it's got to have _most_ of the same information as the official Warner box art. Sure, it's only a tiny bit of the whole Babylon 5 series, but the infringement in question is with regard to the box art, only, in this case. And the recreated box art steals _most_ of the official box art, doesn't it?

And "the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work" would be negligible. People still should buy the DVDs. This however may not be true if the availability of that custom cover art facilitates the spread of pirated copies of the DVDs.

Indeed.

Now, if we're talking about whether I think this personally harms the copyright owner, I'm not sure. Having worked in this field for so many years, it's VERY hard to get off the intellectual property soapbox and see things as a "civilian." :-) But let me assure you that I regularly access sites that infringe all the time, so obviously I'm not a complete hard-ass about this stuff. :-)

But from a purely legal perspective, it's definitely an infringement of both copyright and trademark.

Cheers,

Aisling

[WRTWORTHY]

May I point out you are missing the point, I have the DVD collection. I want my Collection looking perfect.

However being in the UK, This was not to be, WILL YOU REMEMEBR that Season 4 box set is different from the Rest?, On the shelf it looks different and out of Place, Yet we are told to shut and like it,

WB has screwed us over lots of times with the B5 franchise, DonÆt get me started on release dates, B5 movie set movie (which is going to be again different as it only includes the three films not all 5) the Merchandise etc etc, the List goes on, At the end of the day I donÆt Give a god dame if I upsetting some stupid copyright Laws as I have legally purchased the DVD's collection but maybe if WB even bothered about the Franchise and the Fans wants and needs, we would not have to go to such length's, you guys in the US have season 5, we are still waiting (November its out) Plus maybe if they invested in the Cover-art a but more we would not have to do it our selfÆs, and make our own up, oh also maybe if they had invested a bit more in the actual Box we would not have to do this, (considering the Box looks all worn only after times Of opening it up)

Wb owe Us, we have been devoted Fans and we get nothing but poked in the Eye (DonÆt even get me started on the fact they tried to cancel the Show after season 4, so it changed all the storyline and in turn made season 5 the worse season) but I would not know as we donÆt have it out yet (I havenÆt seen Season 5)

I want perfection, I want my B5 collection looking good and kicking Ass, I am not getting this From WB, so why should I give a dame about a company that only care's about Money and profit and not what it puts out? They have to answer for a Lot in terms of how they have treated the franchise,

[bakana]

The British boxes must have been different.

My season 4 matches very nicely with the rest.

Oh, and Britain hasn't Always been treated shabbily. I can remember when certain episodes were broadcast in England 4 Months before they were broadcast in the US.

For reasons having to do with Rating Season. The episodes were held back until "Sweep Week" so the shows Ratings would go UP.

Good Strategy. Frustrating for Fans.
(Although, I have to admit I didn't have to wait Quite so long. I have an acquaintance who was able to obtain some Babylon 5 "Educational Materials" from England. A group of us examined these "EdMats" very closely at her house one evening...)