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  • #31
    Originally posted by Capt.Montoya
    I think IPX would be similar to major USA aerospace companies like Lockheed Martin, heavily involved in government projects including secret defense projects. I don't think such companies are just front companies. But I may be wrong... maybe that's what they want me to think, and they are in control...
    I agree that IPX is almost certainly mostly "legit" in terms of its business, because secret government work doesn't pay well enough to make a company a megacorp and it would be too hard for such a company to hide its sources of income if it were mostly from secret sources (how could you explain that to your stockholders?). But maybe that's what they want ME to believe!
    I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

    Comment


    • #32
      I just finished reading "The Shadow Within".



      Spoilers below.
















































































      It covers the Icarus. There is also a B story of Sheridan and his first command of the Agamemnon. The book takes place around the time of B5's dedication ceremony.

      Some notes.

      Jason was not part of the Icarus crew. He is not mentioned in the book. If he was, then he was totally overlooked.

      Morden was a very competent linguist, he was present on the Mars dig.

      As has been mentioned here before, IPX is only interested in exploiting technology. Risk is irrelevant.

      Homeguard was around back then, and may have been responsible for the destruction of B, B2 & B3.

      I really wonder what happened the first time the Minbari saw B4 in its proposed of final form, and some Grey Council member must have crapped himself.
      "I am not a number! I am a free man!"

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by NotKosh
        I really wonder what happened the first time the Minbari saw B4 in its proposed of final form, and some Grey Council member must have crapped himself.
        That depends on whether any records survived... and maybe Valen tried to make sure there weren't many specifics.

        Thanks for the (lack of) info on Justin from "The Shadow Within."
        Such... is the respect paid to science that the most absurd opinions may become current, provided they are expressed in language, the sound of which recalls some well-known scientific phrase
        James Clerk Maxwell (1831-79)

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Capt.Montoya
          That depends on whether any records survived... and maybe Valen tried to make sure there weren't many specifics.

          Thanks for the (lack of) info on Justin from "The Shadow Within."
          Records did survive, kept secret by the Grey Council. These were shown by Delenn to the B5ers onboard the White Star, while on route to actually do the stealing deed, in War Without End Pt 1.
          Radhil Trebors
          Persona Under Construction

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          • #35
            You also have to keep in mind that, Except for To Dream in the City of Sorrows the writers of the books didn't get much chance to pump JMS for additional info about the background events.

            Mostly because most of the books were written while the show was still on the air and JMS was busier than a Centauri in a Narn game of Dodge Ball.

            That said, this is one of the Better books. It is partuclarly good because if Explains just what it is that Morden Wants.

            It's a shame no one ever told Morden: Be careful what you wish for. You Might get it.

            Can you Imagine the scene if he Did get what he wanted??

            "Hi Honey. I rescued you guys from certain death. And I only had to kill a couple Billion people to do it."

            "YOU DID WHAT ???"

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by bakana
              "Hi Honey. I rescued you guys from certain death. And I only had to kill a couple Billion people to do it."

              The Shadows did not save Morden's family. They killed them.
              Andrew Swallow

              Comment


              • #37
                <<And as far as I'm concerned there is no difference between hinting politely at telling someone to f*** off and just plain telling them, to f*** off.>>

                It's called tact.
                Last edited by Ranger1; 09-17-2004, 11:05 AM.
                Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by WorkerCaste
                  You have convinced me that you sincerely believe that there is "no difference."
                  There is absolutely no difference. Both send the exact same message and amount to exactly the same thing in the end. I much prefer the direct approach to rudeness.

                  Also, it makes no sense to throw the big book of human decency at the same guy you just finished insulting. You can't have your pie, then gratify yourself with it too (though, if you opted for the latter, you could pass it on to your spouse).

                  Further, ugliness is more than a mere surface issue. Often, it detracts from the overall experience. The uglier the obscenity is, the more it'll irk you (case in point, above paragraph, *cough*). A few examples in B5:

                  -Delenns hair style from the start of season 2
                  -Sheridans pear shaped stature all throughout season 2 to mid S3, with a few intervals of dieting. Yes Severed Dreams was still mind blowing, but would have been greater still had he gone easy on the ho-ho's.
                  Last edited by nanorc; 07-30-2004, 01:36 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    For one, he was NOT a redneck. Two, who said you can be from Brooklyn and not be a redneck?
                    Listen, I'm from Brooklyn (althoguh currently an expatriate living in Philadelphia), and I can tell you: we don't have a whole lotta rednecks there. :-)

                    I'd also like to add here that I liked Jeff Corey in the role of Justin. He had a soft, grandfatherliness that made the reality of who he was that much more powerful and effective. IMHO, and YMMV, of course.

                    Aisling

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Radhil
                      Records did survive, kept secret by the Grey Council. These were shown by Delenn to the B5ers onboard the White Star, while on route to actually do the stealing deed, in War Without End Pt 1.
                      Yeah, I remember that scene. I also remember finding it totally unconceivable and indefensible that a technologically advanced race would lose records. Delenn says it was one of the few surviving records from that time period. BS. I can't imagine the Minbari not having plenty of records from that time period. It may have been 1000 years but records get transferred to less fragile media.
                      "I am not a number! I am a free man!"

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by NotKosh
                        Yeah, I remember that scene. I also remember finding it totally unconceivable and indefensible that a technologically advanced race would lose records. Delenn says it was one of the few surviving records from that time period. BS. I can't imagine the Minbari not having plenty of records from that time period. It may have been 1000 years but records get transferred to less fragile media.
                        I suspect that Valen ordered the destruction of the records.

                        Also even today it is a criminal offence to photograph military installations. Babylon 4 was used as a war machine.
                        Andrew Swallow

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Lost records...

                          The folks at WB who held custody of the film (we don't keep that stuff, we're not allowed to by contract, they store film, negative, prints, all that stuff) put the negative canisters into storage...and at one point in the intervening 4 years, there had been water damage, and on another occasion, apparently rats had gotten in there and chewed some of the original negatives (and in most cases there weren't positive struck of those takes).

                          Take your reaction to the foregoing, put it in front of the Hubble telescope, and you will have mine.

                          jms
                          One could argue that We are somewhat technologically advanced.

                          Warner maybe a bit less so.

                          But, if they are that careless with properties that Literally cost Millions of Dollars to produce and have the potential to Generate Millions of dollars in Future Additional Revenue, who is to say that other people [Minbari] might not be even Less inclined to protect records they didn't think were worth anything??

                          The most likely thinking pattern is:

                          We need more storage space. What can we get rid of?

                          Oh, here's some 500 year old copies of records from the Shadow War.
                          We don't need to keep those.
                          The {fill in the blank} has all the copies anyone will ever need.
                          We can toss these.

                          Meanwhile, over at {fill in the blank}

                          We need more storage space. What can we get rid of?
                          ...

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Or if you don't buy the carelessness tack, just look at the bit where their main starbase got blitzed, which I imagine had quite a few computers. Or that there was a war going on and stuff blowing up all over. I imagine historic preservation of all things was kinda low on their list of priorities.
                            Radhil Trebors
                            Persona Under Construction

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by bakana
                              Lost records...



                              One could argue that We are somewhat technologically advanced.

                              Warner maybe a bit less so.

                              But, if they are that careless with properties that Literally cost Millions of Dollars to produce and have the potential to Generate Millions of dollars in Future Additional Revenue, who is to say that other people [Minbari] might not be even Less inclined to protect records they didn't think were worth anything??

                              The most likely thinking pattern is:

                              We need more storage space. What can we get rid of?

                              Oh, here's some 500 year old copies of records from the Shadow War.
                              We don't need to keep those.
                              The {fill in the blank} has all the copies anyone will ever need.
                              We can toss these.

                              Meanwhile, over at {fill in the blank}

                              We need more storage space. What can we get rid of?
                              ...

                              Nope, don't buy it. Not one single iota of it. Don't transpose (relatively) irrelevant entertainment with historical documentaries/documents. Noone in France is tossing away stuff in the Louvre (or however it is spelled) and old films of wars are kept and reproduced. We aren't destroying the few photos of Civil War stuff we have, nor films of WWI/WWII. I think War At Sea is out/coming out on DVD soon. Damn, why didn't they burn that stuff yet?

                              As for B4, it was destroyed in the war, so the military security theory holds no water.

                              And no, the Vorlons didn't tell the Minbari to destroy all records of the Shadows. Lets see, the Shadows come out every 1000 years and foment chaos and destruction. Oh I know what I'll do! Lets get our most efficient /powerful ally to destroy all traces of this, so next time, it will be even harder to get them to fight the Shadows. That doesn't work for the Vorlons or the Minbari leadership.

                              Now the Valen theory works. The last thing the Minbari would need would be Terrans finding out that their space station will end up 1000 years in the past, being utilized by the Minbari.
                              "I am not a number! I am a free man!"

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by NotKosh
                                Nope, don't buy it. Not one single iota of it. Don't transpose (relatively) irrelevant entertainment with historical documentaries/documents.
                                Yet we are talking 1,000 years, not 100 or even 200 years. We have few primary source documents from 1,000 years ago.

                                As for B4, it was destroyed in the war, so the military security theory holds no water.
                                Actually, it wasn't. It was abandoned when the war was over. There is a JMS short story involving the finding of B4, but I haven't read it and so don't remember the details (though someone else here will, I am sure).

                                Now the Valen theory works. The last thing the Minbari would need would be Terrans finding out that their space station will end up 1000 years in the past, being utilized by the Minbari.
                                That could be, but i think it more likely that the Grey Council simply lost interest in their remote past and failed to maintain the records inventory properly. Like the Ark in RotLA, all the data was there in a warehouse, but no one could find them in all that mess!
                                I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

                                Comment

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