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  • #31
    in the vacumn of space?

    It would not matter - maybe the engines are on the tip of the x wings to compensate for this very thing.

    Who Knows.

    Who Cares?

    If Nasa were really prepared to look into building one then that shows you just how good the design was...
    Duracell Bunny is arrested and charged with BATTERY!!

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    • #32
      in the vacumn of space?
      yes.
      "The trouble with being a cynic is that you eventually get labelled as a highly reliable fortune-teller"

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      • #33
        Originally posted by jamielynn
        Hi, this is my first time here. So if I step on any toes, please let me know. That way I won't do it again.

        Earlier, Captain Montoya wrote:

        "Does anyone remember any reference/nod to Star Wars? (I don't.)"

        Now I don't know if this was a nod towards Star Wars, or if the design is one that would be theoretically possible in space, but I've allways been under the impression that the Star Furies were a tribute to the Star Wars X Wings.
        No, they are not. Since they are an attempt to make a logical space fighter, and need maneuverability, they are designed that way so thrust can be applied simply in all axises to change direction.

        X-wings do what they do to look cool, and possible spread the fire pattern out a bit, but I think it concentrates anyway. There are possible arguments for spreading the wings for atmospheric maneuvering, but I don't recall if they were shown that way or not.

        StarFuries respect Newtonian physics and fluid dynamics in space. X-Wings (and all other StarWars craft) act like they are still plunking around in an atmosphere. Also, in the B5 universe people need to actually train to fly a spacecraft. In SW, any stupid 8 year old kid can fly anything.
        Last edited by NotKosh; 07-23-2004, 04:36 PM.
        "I am not a number! I am a free man!"

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        • #34
          Originally posted by grumbler
          Tugboat engines are longer-lasting though just as powerful because they don't need quick acceleration and so don't have it.
          Careful, it was described as a bulldozer not a tug.

          Construction Starfuries are used to move 10 ton metal panels not 10,000 ton spaceships. They are nearer flying forklift trucks.
          Andrew Swallow

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          • #35
            I'm pretty sure the Strapon weapons & Construction info came from JMS. The point is that, In Space, you don't have the same Engine constraints that you do on the ground. Totally different physics.

            Accelleration is Accelleration. The comparison between Tugboats and PT Boats doesn't work.

            The Amount of thrust the engine puts out is what mattters, for the most part. If you're hauling around a few tons of contruction materials, the thing is pretty sluggish. Dump those construction materials and your spacecraft can take off like a Drag Racer for the Exact same fuel cost.

            The Manouverability specs are also pretty much the same:

            In a Fight, you want to have very exacting control so you can dodge and aim and maybe not get shot up yourself.

            On a Construction job, you need that same (or More) exact control so that you can place the various pieces of the space station in exactly the right spot so the Welder can go ahead.
            Without ramming a 2 ton structural member through his kidneys.


            And No One builds a spaceraft of Any Sort planning on letting the engines tear themselves apart for a short term advantage and spending lots of time on Maintenance.
            If your engine craps out in Space, you don't generally have the option of just sorta floating around while you putter around fixing it.


            Why do the starfury fighters look like X-wings from Star Wars?

            When we did the research on how a fighter could best operate in zero gravity, it seemed to require a four-wing axis with thrusters on every side. We've thus taken every possible step to make them NOT look like x-wings. particularly since there's no long, sleek forward section at *all*, it's a snub-nose, and the wings don't move, plus they have the unusual thruster combination. JMS

            The fighters are built on a cross-wing structure (four wings), but very different from either X-wing or tie fighters. The four wings have fore, aft. top, bottom and side thrusters, so that they can move in any direction...they can fly left to right, turn backwards, and continue to fly left to right. flying backwards, and thus fire right to left. They're perfectly designed for zero-g environments. JMS
            We sat down for a very long time with a bunch of designers and techies who know physics and know math and know flight dynamics. we ran computer models, and the physics are right. JMS

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            • #36
              <<there's no long, sleek forward section at *all*>>

              Head on, the Thunderbolt looks more like an X-wing. But that's great. X-wings rule.
              Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

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              • #37
                Sorry about the X-wing comment. Like I said before, I didn't know, so I thought I'd ask. I Didn't realise JMS had discussed the design for the Star Furies before, otherwise I would have known better. Thank you for letting me know .

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                • #38
                  <<I Didn't realise JMS had discussed the design for the Star Furies before, otherwise I would have known better. Thank you for letting me know.>>

                  Ignorance is NO excuse!

                  Seriously, around here you may get hanged unless you first use the search feature on the main page of jmsnews.com

                  Type in "x-wing" and "starfury."
                  Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

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                  • #39
                    Do you glean this from simple deductive reasoning, or is there something solid. We know JMS was sore about DS9, as he'd pitched B5 as a show set in the Trek universe,

                    JMS has numerous times over the years said that he was NOT engaging in any sort of "Paybacks" over DS-9.
                    He figures that getting B-5 on the air and making it a Better Show is all the "Revenge" he needed.
                    Plus, some of the DS-9 actors, writers, etc. are personal friends.
                    The people at Paramont who told him B-5 was a "bad" idea were pretty high up the food chain, not the people who actually make a series Work on a day to day basis.

                    GEnie postings by JMS

                    Actually, we've already *had* ST vs. B5 in sports; our softball team has played both the DS9 and Voyager teams. We lost to Voyager and whomped the hell out of DS9.

                    Here's what was given to the Paramount people, as best I can recall at this time, I'd have to check the correspondence to be sure: the script for "The Gathering" pilot movie; eight to ten pieces of original conceptual artwork done by Peter Ledger helping to explain the concept and giving character sketches; the series "sell" bible which has NEVER been released to any writer, it was *only* intended as a device to help explain to studios and networks the direction and nature of the show; lengthy backgrounds on all of the characters, and descriptions for the overall direction of the series, and synopses of about 22 or so planned episodes taken from the overall course of the planned series. There was a LOT of material.

                    But let me clarify and reinforce something I said on CIS and elsewhere: I don't believe that either Berman or Pillar would deliberately take B5 material and use it. My *only* concern was that in the initial stages of development, which always receive a great deal of "guidance" from studio execs, that the execs who DID have the material might have "guided" them in our direction, in an attempt to co-opt what we were doing for WB/PTEN, because there's great animosity between those two studios, and out of a desire to protect their franchise and eliminate any competition by basically absorbing it.

                    Sometimes it does bother me, and I wonder about what the heck's going on, when I see the only other space station series doing a big arc about alien forces infiltrating earth government, and brewing civil war on Earth, at the *exact same moment* that we're doing it on our show; earlier, later, fine, but that they'd do basically the same thing at the same time feels like another attempt to co-opt what we're doing on this show. (Not copy; co-opt, which happens all the time.

                    Remember Deepstar Six? And another underwater monster movie released about the same time? Those were both *direct* attempt to co-opt The Abyss by coming out first. It happens all the time. When Ghost was in heavy development, every studio in town was scurrying around looking for an after-life movie to put out fast...I know because I got called in and asked to come up with something by a major studio...I declined.) If you kinda know the direction someone else is going, you try to jump ahead and get there first, so that the other either loses impact, or is considered simply an imitation.
                    (Which is one reason why DS9 was hurried through post production to get it on the air a few weeks before B5's pilot, I suspect.)

                    Are we being co-opted? I dunno. When I hear that there's a red headed woman character on DS9 named Leeta (prounced the same as Lyta); when I see them doing the same kind of arc we're doing but getting it out a little earlier, I will confess it does give me pause sometimes. I try to think the best under these conditions. For now, I'm asuming it's all just coincidence.

                    (Oh, and as for scripts vs. production times...we are generally far ahead of most shows on scripts, about 4 episodes ahead of production at any moment. So this next batch of scripts was probably written around August, at which time they're circulated over town to agents and the like as part of casting.
                    So I find it *highly* improbable that these DS9 episodes were written in June, knowing how close to the wire they tend to run over there.)

                    And, really, on another level, it's clear that they weren't ripping off B5 with this two-parter...I will defend that to the death by virtue of the clear logic that they're *really* ripping of SEVEN DAYS IN MAY. As for the timing...well, we'll see.

                    (This is something else that happens a lot in TV; a writer will say, "Okay, let's do FLIGHT OF THE PHOENIX with Jessica Fletcher in the Henry Fonda role.")

                    Finally, re: Jeri Taylor...here I have to disagree. Though we don't talk as often as we should, or as I'd like, in large measure I think because of the perceived awkwardness between ST and B5 right now, I consider her not only a friend, but one of the best writer/producers in town. This isn't widely known, but she was my exec producer, with David Moessinger, on JAKE AND THE FATMAN. We worked together very closely, and I found her to be an immensely talented woman, very dedicated to quality storytelling, ethical and strong willed and generous to a fault. When she and David resigned from Jake on principle, over some stuff that was happening quite unfairly to them, I quit with them, even though it was my very first real network major gig, and my agent thought I was nuts. I don't do this for everybody. I did it for Jeri and David because they are good and decent people, because I cared about them, and because they were *right*...and they're two of the best writers I know.

                    If there's a problem with Voyager -- and I'm not saying there is, because I haven't seen enough of it to form a valid opinion -- it's due to the situation that has always pertained to ST: they make the writers there write with mittens on, and won't let them cut loose with the kinds of stories they COULD do, for fear of doing something controversial that might hurt "The Franchise." I've said it elsewhere and will repeat it again: I know the folks they've got over there, and if Paramount ever backed off and let them do what they're *capable* of doing, they'd blow the doors off of SF television.

                    So long story made short...no, I don't think B&P at DS9 are sitting there cribbing B5 plotlines from the original material provided to Paramount. I think they would refuse. They are ethical individuals. Are they playing a little at co-opting us, which is kind of more accepted in town? I don't know.

                    I think you could make a compelling argument on either side. But I don't know the truth any more than you do, and if they say not, then I'm prepared to believe them. And as for Jeri, anybody here goes after her, has to go through me first.

                    jms

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                    • #40
                      <<Are we being co-opted? I dunno. When I hear that there's a red headed woman character on DS9 named Leeta (prounced the same as Lyta);>>

                      And then a red headed woman named Lita on WWF wrestling in 2000.
                      Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        And there was also Dukhat, take your choice, Minbari or Cardassian.
                        "I am not a number! I am a free man!"

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                        • #42
                          Somehow we got distracted from the Easter Egg hunt.

                          Here's an easy one:

                          Never meddle in the affairs of wizards...

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                          • #43

                            And a little Tougher one:

                            We stand on the bridge and no-one may pass.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by bakana
                              And a little Tougher one: quote:
                              --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              We stand on the bridge and no-one may pass.
                              --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                              That's Marcus's line from the Zarg episode of S3. The rangers' subplot was the only damn thing that kept me awake during that ep.

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                              • #45
                                The whole concept of Technomages may have been a homage to Arthur C. Clarke famous quote. ("Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.")
                                Such... is the respect paid to science that the most absurd opinions may become current, provided they are expressed in language, the sound of which recalls some well-known scientific phrase
                                James Clerk Maxwell (1831-79)

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