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Drakh vs. Interstellar Alliance: tech advantage?

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  • #31
    But I remember they also had another type of engine, shown in A Call to Arms... a sort of "black portal" that took a ship to another point without travelling through hyperspace.
    The Null Field. I didn't think it was a portal. I thought it was more like an envelope they wrapped around their huge ass fleet of ships as they travelled in regular space to keep those outside the field from being able to scan into the field and realize there was a fleet there.

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    • #32
      Why do the Drakh ships use a Vorlon type jump engine? Why not a shadow type?
      We don't know that it WAS a Vorlon type engine.

      It may be that the appearance of the Jump Point is Always like that, no matter what the design of the engine which opens it.

      For instance, Human ships with Jump Engines also look like that when they jump and we Know they don't have Vorlon jump engines.

      The Shadow method of "Sliding" into jump space may be a much more Energy Intense method.
      But, it fits the Shadow "Personality" of being inconspicuous.
      And, while the Drakh are shadow Servants, that doesn't mean the Shadows give them any help with Tech matters.


      Vorlons probably also know how to jump inconspicuously, but when they don't Care who sees their ships, they use the more "Visible" method.

      Those who walk at Sigma 957 also seem to use a variation on the "Shadow" jump.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Flynn2000
        Another thing:

        Fans seem too think that humans in B5's future evolve into Vorlon like lifeformes as shown in "Deconstruction of Falling Stars". Look agian. The Ranger at the end is shown transforming into a "Lorien" kind of anergy ball, not a crystalline energy, carrot/squid like thing. I know this may be splitting hairs, but it's just bugged me all this time.
        Speculating. It could be a way of showing that we have not only caught up with the Vorlons but have surpassed them.

        P. S. The future humans would not need tentacles because they would be telekinetics with a built in ability to use telepathic remote controls. The Vorlons may have developed tentacles before inventing telekinesis.

        We do not know if the energy balls have a hidden crystalline centre.
        Last edited by Andrew_Swallow; 09-27-2004, 09:01 PM.
        Andrew Swallow

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        • #34
          Originally posted by bakana
          We don't know that it WAS a Vorlon type engine.

          It may be that the appearance of the Jump Point is Always like that, no matter what the design of the engine which opens it.
          As shown in "Into The Fire" each of the first Ones has their own method of entering hyperspace. It is not impossible that inventing a method of entering hyperspace was the old test required to gain First One Status.

          Seven or eight thousand years ago the Vorlons went around the galaxy installing jump gates built to a simplified design. The Drahk could have found their local jump gate and started travelling between the stars. The Shadows could have then discovered the Drahk and invited them (or some of them) to Z'ha'dum. Having copied the Vorlon jump engine the Drahk would not have needed to be given a second design of jump engines by the Shadows.
          Andrew Swallow

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          • #35
            This may be splitting hairs but the Shadows never used jump engines. Their ships were constructed with the ability to 'phase' in and out of hyperspace.

            In theory this means that somehow they could change the composition of their ships to pass through the barrier into hyperspace. Most likely this was unique to their ships and could not be fitted to inferior Drakh ships.

            A 'jump engine' basically punches a hole into hyperspace allowing any ship to pass through the hole. Most other races were limited to this method to enter hyperspace.

            The Walkers appeared to jump into normal space at Sigma 957 but we do not know it was from hyperspace. For all we know they could simply fold space to hide themselves like the Vorlons. This does not neccesarily mean they could phase into hyperspace.

            Also, if the Vorlons did indeed build all the jumpgates, I doubt it was for other races to use, but for themselves. I dont believe their ships were capable of phasing into hyperspace like the Shadows.
            *Den-Sha*

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            • #36
              I canÆt recall any case where the younger races used anything but the standard jump point transition to and from hyperspace. That may be the most direct method, and the easiest one to find and develop. The Vorlons may just never have cared enough to look for another way. In many ways, their focus seems to be more inward. The other First Ones might have gotten there by a different, harder route to begin with, or they might have continued to refine the process after the Vorlons were happy.
              "That was the law, as set down by Valen. Three castes: worker, religious, warrior."

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              • #37
                Originally posted by vacantlook
                The Null Field. I didn't think it was a portal. I thought it was more like an envelope they wrapped around their huge ass fleet of ships as they travelled in regular space to keep those outside the field from being able to scan into the field and realize there was a fleet there.
                I don't think that is what the Null Field was.

                It was their Shadow DeathCloud.
                "I am not a number! I am a free man!"

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by WorkerCaste
                  I canÆt recall any case where the younger races used anything but the standard jump point transition to and from hyperspace. That may be the most direct method, and the easiest one to find and develop. The Vorlons may just never have cared enough to look for another way. In many ways, their focus seems to be more inward. The other First Ones might have gotten there by a different, harder route to begin with, or they might have continued to refine the process after the Vorlons were happy.
                  Look at the philosophy!

                  The Vorlon/gate method is the produce of an ordered process. Build a device that slowly opens a path into hyperspace for a period of time.

                  The Shadow method seems to be to rip/force the ship immediately to hyperspace
                  "I am not a number! I am a free man!"

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Bonehead
                    Also, if the Vorlons did indeed build all the jumpgates, I doubt it was for other races to use, but for themselves. I dont believe their ships were capable of phasing into hyperspace like the Shadows.
                    Somewhere I read that the Vorlon's building of jumpgates is a canonical fact, but I didn't know that before joining these forums.
                    This was part of their "parenting" of younger races, by leaving jumpgates near the solar systems of sentience developing planets, a way to help them become part of the galactic community once they were ready to find, understand and duplicate jump engines.

                    The vanishing act of the Shadow ships does agree with the chaos philosophy: attack with no warning, no jump-point forming for enemy defenses to detect.
                    Such... is the respect paid to science that the most absurd opinions may become current, provided they are expressed in language, the sound of which recalls some well-known scientific phrase
                    James Clerk Maxwell (1831-79)

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                    • #40
                      I don't think that is what the Null Field was.

                      It was their Shadow DeathCloud.
                      Well the Null Field makes an appearance in the second book of the Centauri trilogy Armies of Light and Dark. In it, the Null Field is described thusly:

                      Mild

                      Centauri

                      Trilogy

                      S
                      p
                      o
                      i
                      l
                      e
                      r

                      S
                      p
                      a
                      c
                      e

                      "It's a null field," Finian replied. "Think of it as almost a sort of portable black hole... except you can go in and out. It absorbs all light and all manner of sensory or energy probes. It can utterly convince instrumentation that it's not there. And people who encounter it won't bother to see with their own eyes because they've become so heavily dependent on technology...."
                      Shortly there after once they've entered the Null Field, they come across a huge Shadow base called Xha'dam that's bigger than the Babylon 5 station, and at the far end of Xha'dam, was something that at first looked like some sort of planet but when viewed more was revieled to be the Shadow Planet Killer with Drakh ships around it working on it and preparing it for use.

                      E
                      n
                      d

                      So, I'd have to say that the Null Field and the Shadow Planet Killer are two completely different pieces of technology.

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                      • #41
                        The vanishing act of the Shadow ships does agree with the chaos philosophy: attack with no warning, no jump-point forming for enemy defenses to detect.
                        I believe that, in one episode, a White Star IS able to detect the Shadow ships opening a jump point.
                        It's detectable. Just not as "loud and flashy" as the other method(s).

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                        • #42
                          Hyperspace Entering Method

                          Each race has a technology tree as they move up it there are pivotal points.

                          Certain races became transcendant before they developed hyperspace technology.

                          The Triad and Lorien see between all different dimensions, and so don't use this technology. And the Triumviron which is the Triad's ship, is created by their minds.

                          The Walkers do not use a Hyperspace Device, instead they use a device that lets them move into any Dimension of their choosing.

                          And the reason the Vorlons created the jump gates was because it was determined that the technology needed to duplicate a jump gate, was far less than that of to find your own entrance into hyperspace. By making the gates the Vorlons essentially cut off the development of the other races. They did this because of the Kirshiac who are the last of the First Ones, and one of the most dangerous.

                          Regards,

                          Lord Scotty

                          see Wars of the Ancients
                          "You are between", Lorien

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                          • #43
                            Is "Wars Of The Ancients" something to do with the B5 rpg or something?

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                            • #44
                              Wars of the Ancients

                              AOG Book
                              Agents of Gaming

                              http://www.agentsofgaming.com/ob5sup.htm

                              edit: Note it is not RPG it was for the Ship Battles Game. And they were supported by JMS. Canon information.

                              The Wars of the Ancients book has information on the ships of the Ancients, but also has small little internal stories. Which I enjoy more than the specs.
                              "You are between", Lorien

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