Drakh vs. Interstellar Alliance: tech advantage?

[Capt.Montoya]

OK, when the Shadows left the Drakh and their followers took Shadow technology with them. That included the defeated Planet Killer, the nanotech plague, the Keepers, the control pods used in Centauri ships, and most likely more Shadow tech that we haven't learned about. They took as much as they could when leaving Z'ha'dum I would think. Not only that, since the Shadows operated through servants they know how to use the Shadow Tech even if they don't know enough to replicate it.

By contrast the Minbari and Earth only had a bit of Vorlon technology in the White Stars... the Vorlon planet is off-limits for the time being. The IA barely understood Vorlon tech and struggled to reverse engineer it for the Excalibur class ships.
Even if the Earth Alliance tried to develop Shadow Tech I doubt the IA would incorporate it in their weapons and ships.
The IA then only has the technology level of Minbari plus some rudimentary organic ship technology incorporated in the White Stars.

Doesn't it seem like the Shadow minions would have a technological advantage against the Interstellar Alliance?

How then can the IA win the Drakh war?

Thoughts?

[circularREASON]

but doesn't sheridan state in A CALL TO ARMS that every time they came up against left over shado tech they got their asses whooped every time

[Ranger 6 and 7/8]

Wasnt the Warlock clas Battlecruiser a SHadow Technology combined with EA tech?

I remember it looking like a battlcruiser with a Shadow vessel shoved up one end..It was Ivanova's first ship..at the end of season 4

[Atanvarno]

You're confusing Clarke's advanced destroyers with the Warlock class destroyer.

Warlock. You'll notice no rotating sections. (I assume this is because of the IA sharing artifical gravity tech with the EA, however, I'm not sure how they made a ship so darn quickly for Ivanova to take command of.)

Advanced destroyer.

[Bonehead]

The Warlock class was one of the newer breeds of EA destroyer. If I remember correctly we see a normal one in a Crusade episode.

As you rightly said, durin President Clarke's reign, a few 'advanced' destroyers were created by back-engineering shadow vessels.

In regards to how the Alliance could win against superior tech is a matter of balance.

The Drakh are, whats left of, one race (although the Strieb seem to tag along on occasion, eg on Centauri Prime). They are a race thats lost its home and all its resources. Once their ships are slowly picked off by the Alliance, they would have no way of replenishing their forces.

The alliance is a combination of many races with massive resources and manpower at its desposal. Even if it took several years, the alliance would come out eventually on top.

Despite the Drakh having superior technology, its a question of numbers.

[Bonehead]

Well, I was just looking at some starship designs and came across these 'official' size charts which I found interesting.

OMG ! I cant believe the size of the Drakh mother ship ! Check out the first chart with the mothership 59.69km long compared to B5 at 8.45km long. That sounds biger than a Vorlon planet killer, maybe the Drakh would be harder to take down than I thought. (even their standard cruiser is bigger than the Excalibur)

(Shame all the other ships are not shown - like the Sharlin or g'quan)

Ship charts

[Ranger 6 and 7/8]

Originally posted by Atanvarno
You're confusing Clarke's advanced destroyers with the Warlock class destroyer.

Warlock. You'll notice no rotating sections. (I assume this is because of the IA sharing artifical gravity tech with the EA, however, I'm not sure how they made a ship so darn quickly for Ivanova to take command of.)

Advanced destroyer.

yeah, i just figured out where I got my confusion. Watch the ep again.
As they are explaining what happened to everyone, they show a flyby of the Advanced cruiser as they say the Ivanova has decided to take command of the new Warlock class prototype cruiser.

[Bonehead]

Originally posted by Atanvarno
You're confusing Clarke's advanced destroyers with the Warlock class destroyer.

Warlock. You'll notice no rotating sections. (I assume this is because of the IA sharing artifical gravity tech with the EA, however, I'm not sure how they made a ship so darn quickly for Ivanova to take command of.)

Advanced destroyer.

Well, by the looks of THIS the Warlock was designed durin Clarkes reign with Narn/Dilgar/Centauri and Shadow tech, and was about to begin production when Sherridens forces began their offensive with Earth.

It was the Warlock that was to have the Shadow tech added originally. But due to Sherriden's offensive, they quickly fitted the tech to the Omegas instead to save time (the warlock shipyards and a few nearly finished Warlocks were captured).

After the civil war was concluded, the design was updated to include the new Minbari gravity systems.

On a slightly different subject I also found this interesting article about the appearance of Omegas in 'In the Beginning' which by all accounts should have been Novas since the Omega was meant to be designed after the Minbari war.Nova X ?

[NotKosh]

Originally posted by Ranger 6 and 7/8
yeah, i just figured out where I got my confusion. Watch the ep again.
As they are explaining what happened to everyone, they show a flyby of the Advanced cruiser as they say the Ivanova has decided to take command of the new Warlock class prototype cruiser.

I am calling you on this.

I just watched it again.

1) Ivanova is looking out of the station. From lower left to right, 3 Furies do a flybye as it pans up to her. There is also a cargo ship on the right. When inside, when she is looking out the window there is a transport plunking around. There is no Advanced Cruiser in that shot.

[Capt.Montoya]

Originally posted by circularREASON
but doesn't sheridan state in A CALL TO ARMS that every time they came up against left over shado tech they got their asses whooped every time

That is why I was asking...

The thread wandered into ship comparisons but I'd like to see more opinions on this topic...

After the Shadow War it's apparent the Drakh have the technological advantage, yet the IA defeats them in the Drakh war a few years later... or do they?
One million years thereafter the conflict against opposing forces continues.

Thoughts?

[circularREASON]

my guess is that the same cycle which evolved between the Shadows and Vorlons begins again. ( remember Delenn in WWE2 - ''only the names change'' ).

It is probably an eternal cycle.

Once the First ones left the cycle passed on the the younger races.

Only my opinion though - I would love to read what others have to say.

[jal]

the Drakh and their allies probably have a tech advantage going for them, but in the long term i just can`t see them keeping that advantage.

i don`t think they don`t have the numbers when compared to the ISA, nor a stable base of opperations.

nor do i see them actually succeeding in taking over the role that the Shadows left vacant, the Drakh are mere wannabes and in the long term.. not up to the job (just my personal point of view).

------------------------------------------

as for the Warlock, it is never shown in Babylon 5, it`s first showing was in the tv movie "A Call To Arms", and then it was only glimsed very briefly during the final battle when the Drakh controlled Shadow Death Cloud is let loose against Earth.

we finally get to see a whole warlock in the final episode of Crusade.

the Warlock did have some Shadow tech systems in it, a short story by JMS mentions that fact.

but it was never kitted out with the same Shadow armour as seen in season four of B5 when Ivanova has a run in with the Shadow Omegas controlled by Clarke.

some confusion may be arising from the fact that when the Shadow Omegas were first seen on the show some people on the net put 2 & 2 together and got 5, thinking that they were actuall Warlocks, such was not the case.

[Dr Maturin]

Originally posted by jal
the Drakh and their allies probably have a tech advantage going for them, but in the long term i just can`t see them keeping that advantage.

i don`t think they don`t have the numbers when compared to the ISA, nor a stable base of opperations.

nor do i see them actually succeeding in taking over the role that the Shadows left vacant, the Drakh are mere wannabes and in the long term.. not up to the job (just my personal point of view).

------------------------------------------

as for the Warlock, it is never shown in Babylon 5, it`s first showing was in the tv movie "A Call To Arms", and then it was only glimsed very briefly during the final battle when the Drakh controlled Shadow Death Cloud is let loose against Earth.

we finally get to see a whole warlock in the final episode of Crusade.

the Warlock did have some Shadow tech systems in it, a short story by JMS mentions that fact.

but it was never kitted out with the same Shadow armour as seen in season four of B5 when Ivanova has a run in with the Shadow Omegas controlled by Clarke.

some confusion may be arising from the fact that when the Shadow Omegas were first seen on the show some people on the net put 2 & 2 together and got 5, thinking that they were actuall Warlocks, such was not the case.

Well, if the Drakh are currently want-to-be's, then maybe they learn to become the real deal later on. Are the humans mere want-to-be's? They may become the opposing force later on, as mentioned earlier. If Minbar is the center of ISA operations, then maybe the Minbari become one of the shepherd races, not the humans. Or...BOTH. Maybe the An'Shalok become the shepherds and not one race. I mean, in DOFS, we see the Rangers on a clandestine mission on Earth in the future. They could be doing this everywhere.

SPOILERS FOLLOW...




Well, the Drakh DON'T have a base any longer, after their homeworld of Xha'dam was destroyed in the LOF trilogy. But they would probably find someplace else to dig in and set up a new base.

[jal]

SPOILERS FOLLOW...




Well, the Drakh DON'T have a base any longer, after their homeworld of Xha'dam was destroyed in the LOF trilogy. But they would probably find someplace else to dig in and set up a new base.

more spoilers follow.......

(i keep forgetting that not everyone has see and read it all. )




well, their attempt to use Centauri Prime as a home/base doesn`t work out either.

it is also possible that the Drakh were not the most able servants that the Shadows had,.

who else withdrew to lurking in the shadows when Z`ha`dum fell?

just because the Drakh were the first to grab hold of the reigns of power does not neccessarily mean that they were destined to fill the shoes of their masters.

maybe the smart ones are still out there.... waiting, what`s a wait of a thousand years against the chance of shaping the future? it never bothered the Shadows.

[Dr Maturin]

<<well, their attempt to use Centauri Prime as a home/base doesn`t work out either.

it is also possible that the Drakh were not the most able servants that the Shadows had,.>>

That, or it was just the end result of messin' with Londo F'n Mollari.


<<who else withdrew to lurking in the shadows when Z`ha`dum fell?>>

The Streib, the Wurtt (sp?), the "technicians."


<<just because the Drakh were the first to grab hold of the reigns of power does not neccessarily mean that they were destined to fill the shoes of their masters.

maybe the smart ones are still out there.... waiting, what`s a wait of a thousand years against the chance of shaping the future? it never bothered the Shadows.>>

True, but for some reason I think the Drakh are the ones, despite their initial failures. They have something of a collective conciousness, so that is a plus in forming a policy of terror against other races.

And notice how the Shadows got something of a free pass in Into the Fire? They were apparently going to go beyond the rim and play nice. The Drakh have been portrayed as nothing but pure evil, like robots, if you will.