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  • Ranger 6 and 7/8
    replied
    Originally posted by grumbler
    And kudos to Ranger 6 and 7/8 for actually coming up with a topic I haven't seen argued to death on an infinity of boards before this. Yeah, there have been similar topics, but nothing quite this precise and insightful that I have seen.
    Thanks Grumbler, I really appreciate that. Does this mean I can graduate to a full Ranger now? with a spify new pike and kool dark robes and a shiny pendant?woo-hoo

    I have been reading the posts for a while now, and to get a good complement from you w/o sarcasm is...well...odd. WHO ARE YOU and WHAT DID YOU DO WITH GRUMBLER?

    just kidding.

    Sorry I haven't joined in the posts. I have a family member who, as we in the B5 universe would say, "Is preparing to go beyond the rim."
    Reading these good arguments have helped me keep my mind occupied.
    thanks to all

    I will post mine when things settle down and I can put into words who I was most affected by and how i saw them change..

    "May we meet again in a place where no shadows fall"
    hey, since you can't cast a shadow in cyber space, does that mean Delenn had cybersex with sheridan?

    thanks again guys.

    Leave a comment:


  • nanorc
    replied
    Originally posted by grumbler
    It takes nothing to "rise" to the level of Lieutenant in the B5 universe, you seem to graduate to it!
    If the B5 universe is anything like the real one, it would at least take a few years hard work and experience in the military or a years study in an officer training program in order to qualify for such a post. Something more than ''nothing'' certainly.
    Last edited by nanorc; 07-20-2004, 03:27 AM.

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  • Starkiller
    replied
    Bester, in the Face of the Enemy where he tells Garibaldi the truth, that is the moment you realize just how far hes willing to go and how sadistic he was.

    Leave a comment:


  • NotKosh
    replied
    Vir:

    The Long Night Ending up killing Cartagia & the resultant cost of taking a life.

    Meditations on The Abyss Developing a backbone and going on a rampage against the Drazi merchant that bugged his package in the Zocalo.
    Last edited by NotKosh; 07-19-2004, 07:48 PM.

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  • grumbler
    replied
    Originally posted by NotKosh
    Ivanova? Rising Star?
    I would argue that Ivanova never really accepts her charactor until the final episode, and that, in fact, until she becomes Ranger One she is still locked in her old, manufactured persona. That is what her B5 epigraph at the end is all about.

    And kudos to Ranger 6 and 7/8 for actually coming up with a topic I haven't seen argued to death on an infinity of boards before this. Yeah, there have been similar topics, but nothing quite this precise and insightful that I have seen.

    Leave a comment:


  • grumbler
    replied
    Originally posted by nanorc
    To me, Corwin has always seemed to be more of a rookie/amateur than anything else. It's hard to believe that a guy with so many unstable nerves could rise to the rank of lieutenant in any armed forces : P
    It takes nothing to "rise" to the level of Lieutenant in the B5 universe, you seem to graduate to it!

    I can see myself as a young, insecure officer reporting into this vast pre-existing entity called the "USS Arthur W. Radford" and feeling much as Corwin did. Responsibilities come fast and furious - you have an assignment and you need to stagger under to take up your share of the load almost immediately. Understanding comes later.

    Corwin didn't have a good Chief Petty Oficer to get him ready for his decision, because of JMS's decision to regard the US Air Force as a "military" service and consider its ethos as a military one. Had JMS followed the Navy model more closely, he would have had a Chief tell him those first, vital words every Navy officer hears (and the ones I heard from my Chief when I reported aborad the AWR ): "Sir, you are the officer. Your job is to make the decisions. We can always recover from bad decisions. But we can never recover from lack of decisions."

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  • Towelmaster
    replied
    I think it was in 'Severed Dreams' that he takes off his insignia. That is definitely one of those moments'.

    Also; The moment in Endgame where he makes the decision to ram that orbital weapons-station. A bit late in the series perhaps...

    Leave a comment:


  • NotKosh
    replied
    Garibaldi's would be when he finally has to face his alcoholism.

    Franklin's would have been Shadow Dancing

    Ivanova? Rising Star?

    So when is Sheridan's moment?

    Severed Dreams?
    Z'ha'Dum?

    Leave a comment:


  • Towelmaster
    replied
    I wrote this piece about Londo for the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy Online a while ago. Of course I have seen the series much more often now... ;-) See what you think.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A592841

    I think for me Londo was defined when he wanted to know the truth about his recurring dream from the late emperor's third wife. Not to confirm htat the dream was going to come true but to see if he could avoid it.

    And here is the inevitable one about G'Kar ;-) :

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A988987

    G'Kar's transitional moment for me was in Dust to Dust. After that he became much more of a spiritual and thoughtful person. I also think that Kosh play a beautiful role in that change.

    Leave a comment:


  • nanorc
    replied
    To me, Corwin has always seemed to be more of a rookie/amateur than anything else. It's hard to believe that a guy with so many unstable nerves could rise to the rank of lieutenant in any armed forces : P

    Leave a comment:


  • grumbler
    replied
    I rather liked the moment in Severed Dreams when Corwin was, to his surprise and dismay, forced to make an instant choice between loyalty to his commanders or to the EA as a whole. Not a lot of dialogue, but a defining moment when he went from innocence to responsibility. I liked how he said he "I think so" when being asked if he was "okay with this" and didn't just say "yes."

    Leave a comment:


  • Starkiller
    replied
    Remember, there were Three acceptable candidates to occupy the Great Machine: Draal, Sinclair and LONDO

    could you imagine Londo in charge of the great machine? things wouldve turned out way different.

    Also i think another defining moment for G'Kar and Londo is in No Surrender, No Retreat where they Talk, you can really see Londo trying to make up for some of his mistakes. and for G'Kar when he decides to sign the joint statement.

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  • bakana
    replied
    For Londo:
    "Now, landing thrusters.. landing thrusters, hmm. Now if I were a landing thruster, which one of these would I be?"

    -- Londo in Babylon 5:"A Voice in the Wilderness #2"
    That is when we begin to understand what is at the heart of Londo's problems. Why he's a drunken buffoon and what drives all the changes he goes through:

    Londo is an Unemployed Hero. He's looking for something worth Dying For. And the Centauri Empire doesn't NEED any more Heros.


    JMS did his best to make it Very Clear.

    The third principle of sentient life is the capacity for self-sacrifice, the conscious ability to override evolution and self-preservation for a cause, a friend, a loved one."

    -- Draal to Delenn in Babylon 5:"A Voice in the Wilderness #1"

    "The third principle of sentient life is it's capacity for self-sacrifice. For a cause, a loved one, for a friend."

    -- Delenn to Draal in Babylon 5:"A Voice in the Wilderness #2"
    Remember, there were Three acceptable candidates to occupy the Great Machine: Draal, Sinclair and LONDO

    Leave a comment:


  • circularREASON
    replied
    In INFECTION when EA bio-division arrive to confiscate the bio-technology from Franklin.

    ''I'll be over there getting drunk with the rest of the aliens''

    I Think that sums up Ivanovas pessimistic attitude completely.

    Leave a comment:


  • AmyG
    replied
    For me, the verges of Londo's arc can be defined by _how_ he chooses to serve his people. In the early part of the series, it seems that his choices are all self-centered ones, designed to put him in place to get more power, more prestige for his house, more money, more rank. And then at the end of season 5, he chooses to serve his people instead through self-sacrifice, by accepting the Keeper.

    Also, at the beginning of the series he'd trample over anyone of any other race in order to help the Centauri; but at the end of season 5, he consciously makes the effort to distance himself from the rest of his friends in the Alliance, and places Vir back on B5, away from the palace, solely to keep them all safe.

    Regarding G'Kar, of course the incident in "Dust to Dust" is a great moment of transition - although even better than his weeping over the violence he's visited on Mollari, IMHO, is how cheerfully he accepts his sentence from the ombudsman at the end. But I think an even more pivotal moment for him is in "Walkabout," where, with Garibaldi's prompting, he talks Na'Kal (commanding the G'Tok) into aiding the White Star in its maiden attempt to engage a Shadow vessel with a teep on board.

    Aisling

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