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  • #16
    For Londo:
    "Now, landing thrusters.. landing thrusters, hmm. Now if I were a landing thruster, which one of these would I be?"

    -- Londo in Babylon 5:"A Voice in the Wilderness #2"
    That is when we begin to understand what is at the heart of Londo's problems. Why he's a drunken buffoon and what drives all the changes he goes through:

    Londo is an Unemployed Hero. He's looking for something worth Dying For. And the Centauri Empire doesn't NEED any more Heros.


    JMS did his best to make it Very Clear.

    The third principle of sentient life is the capacity for self-sacrifice, the conscious ability to override evolution and self-preservation for a cause, a friend, a loved one."

    -- Draal to Delenn in Babylon 5:"A Voice in the Wilderness #1"

    "The third principle of sentient life is it's capacity for self-sacrifice. For a cause, a loved one, for a friend."

    -- Delenn to Draal in Babylon 5:"A Voice in the Wilderness #2"
    Remember, there were Three acceptable candidates to occupy the Great Machine: Draal, Sinclair and LONDO

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    • #17
      Remember, there were Three acceptable candidates to occupy the Great Machine: Draal, Sinclair and LONDO

      could you imagine Londo in charge of the great machine? things wouldve turned out way different.

      Also i think another defining moment for G'Kar and Londo is in No Surrender, No Retreat where they Talk, you can really see Londo trying to make up for some of his mistakes. and for G'Kar when he decides to sign the joint statement.
      There is a greater darkness than the one we fight, its is the darkness of the soul that has lost its way.

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      • #18
        I rather liked the moment in Severed Dreams when Corwin was, to his surprise and dismay, forced to make an instant choice between loyalty to his commanders or to the EA as a whole. Not a lot of dialogue, but a defining moment when he went from innocence to responsibility. I liked how he said he "I think so" when being asked if he was "okay with this" and didn't just say "yes."
        I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

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        • #19
          To me, Corwin has always seemed to be more of a rookie/amateur than anything else. It's hard to believe that a guy with so many unstable nerves could rise to the rank of lieutenant in any armed forces : P

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          • #20
            I wrote this piece about Londo for the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy Online a while ago. Of course I have seen the series much more often now... ;-) See what you think.

            http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A592841

            I think for me Londo was defined when he wanted to know the truth about his recurring dream from the late emperor's third wife. Not to confirm htat the dream was going to come true but to see if he could avoid it.

            And here is the inevitable one about G'Kar ;-) :

            http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A988987

            G'Kar's transitional moment for me was in Dust to Dust. After that he became much more of a spiritual and thoughtful person. I also think that Kosh play a beautiful role in that change.
            "En wat als tijd de helft van echtheid was, was alles dan dubbelsnel verbaal?"

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            • #21
              Garibaldi's would be when he finally has to face his alcoholism.

              Franklin's would have been Shadow Dancing

              Ivanova? Rising Star?

              So when is Sheridan's moment?

              Severed Dreams?
              Z'ha'Dum?
              "I am not a number! I am a free man!"

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              • #22
                I think it was in 'Severed Dreams' that he takes off his insignia. That is definitely one of those moments'.

                Also; The moment in Endgame where he makes the decision to ram that orbital weapons-station. A bit late in the series perhaps...
                "En wat als tijd de helft van echtheid was, was alles dan dubbelsnel verbaal?"

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by nanorc
                  To me, Corwin has always seemed to be more of a rookie/amateur than anything else. It's hard to believe that a guy with so many unstable nerves could rise to the rank of lieutenant in any armed forces : P
                  It takes nothing to "rise" to the level of Lieutenant in the B5 universe, you seem to graduate to it!

                  I can see myself as a young, insecure officer reporting into this vast pre-existing entity called the "USS Arthur W. Radford" and feeling much as Corwin did. Responsibilities come fast and furious - you have an assignment and you need to stagger under to take up your share of the load almost immediately. Understanding comes later.

                  Corwin didn't have a good Chief Petty Oficer to get him ready for his decision, because of JMS's decision to regard the US Air Force as a "military" service and consider its ethos as a military one. Had JMS followed the Navy model more closely, he would have had a Chief tell him those first, vital words every Navy officer hears (and the ones I heard from my Chief when I reported aborad the AWR ): "Sir, you are the officer. Your job is to make the decisions. We can always recover from bad decisions. But we can never recover from lack of decisions."
                  I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by NotKosh
                    Ivanova? Rising Star?
                    I would argue that Ivanova never really accepts her charactor until the final episode, and that, in fact, until she becomes Ranger One she is still locked in her old, manufactured persona. That is what her B5 epigraph at the end is all about.

                    And kudos to Ranger 6 and 7/8 for actually coming up with a topic I haven't seen argued to death on an infinity of boards before this. Yeah, there have been similar topics, but nothing quite this precise and insightful that I have seen.
                    I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Vir:

                      The Long Night Ending up killing Cartagia & the resultant cost of taking a life.

                      Meditations on The Abyss Developing a backbone and going on a rampage against the Drazi merchant that bugged his package in the Zocalo.
                      Last edited by NotKosh; 07-19-2004, 07:48 PM.
                      "I am not a number! I am a free man!"

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                      • #26
                        Bester, in the Face of the Enemy where he tells Garibaldi the truth, that is the moment you realize just how far hes willing to go and how sadistic he was.
                        There is a greater darkness than the one we fight, its is the darkness of the soul that has lost its way.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by grumbler
                          It takes nothing to "rise" to the level of Lieutenant in the B5 universe, you seem to graduate to it!
                          If the B5 universe is anything like the real one, it would at least take a few years hard work and experience in the military or a years study in an officer training program in order to qualify for such a post. Something more than ''nothing'' certainly.
                          Last edited by nanorc; 07-20-2004, 03:27 AM.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by grumbler
                            And kudos to Ranger 6 and 7/8 for actually coming up with a topic I haven't seen argued to death on an infinity of boards before this. Yeah, there have been similar topics, but nothing quite this precise and insightful that I have seen.
                            Thanks Grumbler, I really appreciate that. Does this mean I can graduate to a full Ranger now? with a spify new pike and kool dark robes and a shiny pendant?woo-hoo

                            I have been reading the posts for a while now, and to get a good complement from you w/o sarcasm is...well...odd. WHO ARE YOU and WHAT DID YOU DO WITH GRUMBLER?

                            just kidding.

                            Sorry I haven't joined in the posts. I have a family member who, as we in the B5 universe would say, "Is preparing to go beyond the rim."
                            Reading these good arguments have helped me keep my mind occupied.
                            thanks to all

                            I will post mine when things settle down and I can put into words who I was most affected by and how i saw them change..

                            "May we meet again in a place where no shadows fall"
                            hey, since you can't cast a shadow in cyber space, does that mean Delenn had cybersex with sheridan?

                            thanks again guys.
                            There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against such power, governments, and kingdoms, and conquerors cannot stand.
                            WE WILL BE FREE!

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