Seeing things clearly

[Dr Maturin]

I have come across some profanity-laden posts by JMS back in the 90s where he refutes people's suggestions that he had borrowed or ripped off certain aspects of other media franchises, books, comics, etc. Obviously, creators are going to parallel each other sometimes. It's unavoidable.

Along those lines, I noticed something while wrapping up season four. In Timothy Zahn's "Thrawn trilogy" of novels that reignited the Star Wars name in the 90s, he introduces several new archetypes into the franchise mythology. One of these was Garm Bel Iblis, a former Corellian senator who, with Mon Mothma and Bail Organa, formed the Rebel Alliance (retcon). After a while, he didn't like how Mothma's cult of personality took on a life of its own. They clashed over something, so he left.

It reminded me of the Garibaldi/Sheridan relationship. However, Iblis re-emerged five years after RoTJ and joined the New Republic. He had been waiting in hiding with his forces, striking at the Empire on his own and waiting for Mothma to become a dictator, which never happened.

Also, I watched IIRT today. What a fantastic episode.

[Dr Maturin]

"Atonement" is one of the best episodes of the entire series. It had a stand alone style to it while addressing issues that spanned the series and franchise. Great work there.

[Marsden]

....

He did have a point about Sheridan and his "new best friend." Maybe when he called John out on it during that first meeting after the return from Z'ha'dum it pissed John off?

I think that's most of it right there. One of the great things about B5's characters are their faults and tell me John didn't have a bad temper. If you get him angry you'd know it.

He even said once to Delenn (I think) that every time he tries to speak to Michael they start off wrong. That's not a quote but I remember him not wanting to be like that towards him but situations and attitudes seem to prevent them from being friendlier.

[circularREASON]

I always assumed Sheridan's attitude was purely and simply down to the fact that he knew "exactly" what he had to do to end the shadow war, and his new determination in this matter was down to the teachings of lorien. He only had 20 years left and he was not going to waste a second of it. He realised that everyone had been sold a lie by the vorlons, and he now had to deal with them as well. Plus the weight of expectation that came with returning from z'ha'dum alive cant have been easy.

Now if Garibaldi was upset by this then so what. He was not a part of the greater problem. Sheridan had to sort this conflict out, for the universes sake.

Maybe the Vorlon/kosh part of sheridan recognised that Garibaldi had been manipulated - and was influencing sheridan. On a subconcious level.

[Zoltan]

I still wonder what the catalyst was for Sheridan's behavior. Bruce Boxleitner is an excellent (and very underrated) actor, and I could see and almost feel the antipathy when he was around Michael. Yeah, Michael came back with a bad attitude, but he had gone through some major crap. Of course, he "didn't remember," but still, just experiencing memory loss is not good.

The explanation for me in Sheridan's behavior was always the time Garibaldi went missing (also the strange circumstances he was found). When one adds to that Garibaldi's suspicion about Sheridan's "comeback" from a place nobody ever came back alive (without change), and the change in Sheridan's personality, he didn't even need much of Bester's programming. The "normal" Garibaldi might've shown his suspicion with more ambiguity, more introverted, but the suspicion would be there nonetheless.

[Andrew_Swallow]

Alternatively Lorien warned Sheridan.

[Dr Maturin]

Thanks for covering that angle.

I still wonder what the catalyst was for Sheridan's behavior. Bruce Boxleitner is an excellent (and very underrated) actor, and I could see and almost feel the antipathy when he was around Michael. Yeah, Michael came back with a bad attitude, but he had gone through some major crap. Of course, he "didn't remember," but still, just experiencing memory loss is not good.

He did have a point about Sheridan and his "new best friend." Maybe when he called John out on it during that first meeting after the return from Z'ha'dum it pissed John off?

[babylonlurker]

Hey, DM! Nice to see you back!

I guess I have to say that Garibaldi's suspicious nature probably would have aggravated by his conditioning even if Sheridan had been his best buddy. I'll be interested to see what others think, though.

Jan

IIRC that is what Bester told Garibaldi at his "deprogramming" , he did not want G. too changed, but just enhanced the suspicious nature.

[Jan]

One must wonder: If Sheridan had brought Michael in close, would the brainwashing still have been carried out to its full intention?

Hey, DM! Nice to see you back!

As I recall, Bester was surprised when Garibaldi resigned the B5 staff so I wonder if he thought that there was danger to the telepaths coming from another angle or if he just figured that everything passed through B5 so Garibaldi would have a good chance of sniffing anything out.

I guess I have to say that Garibaldi's suspicious nature probably would have aggravated by his conditioning even if Sheridan had been his best buddy. I'll be interested to see what others think, though.

Jan

[Dr Maturin]

During my third full rewatch of the series, I noticed that Sheridan was kind of an ass to Garibaldi after returning from Z'ha'dum. Yeah, Michael was being a jerk, too, but that was Michael being Michael. He had gone through a lot just like Sheridan had. I don't know why, but this stood out while watching this time around.

One must wonder: If Sheridan had brought Michael in close, would the brainwashing still have been carried out to its full intention?

[Ranger 6 and 7/8]

hey Jimbo,
Glad you could join us. Another thing that it great about B5 is the quality of the film. IT stil holds up to most of today's sfx. When i watch Star Trek shows from the same time period they all appear dated, but B5 looks fresh. Glad you enjoy watching it.

[DGTWoodward]

It is a true feat of writing genius indeed, when you consider how the show was meant to go had Michael O'Hare continued in the role of Commander.

Just consider all the rearrangement, the reorganisation, unplanned condesning of the story and re mapping and replanning of the adjusted sequence that had to happen with the introduction of a new C.O. to the station, so that it still basically told the same story.

I think that what sets B5 above ALL other tv SF shows of recent times is that from the top down it was clearly a labour of love for those involved.

Welcome to the forum and to the world of B5 enjoyment.

[ILUVJOHNSHERIDAN]

Welcome Jimbo! I know what you mean. I am somewhat obssessed with B-5. I have watched the series and movies in seccession about a dozen times this year alone. I discover something new every time I watch it. There is just so much information to process and you pick up on things in one episode from season 1 that totally connects and corresponds to an episode in season 5.

[WorkerCaste]

Hi Jimbo. Welcome. I agree that I pick up a few new things everytime I go through the series. When it was on, I used to watch each episode twice just to try and catch more.

[Jan]

Hi Jimbo', and welcome. B5 is a show that rewards re-watching that's for sure.

Glad you joined us.

Jan