Nightwatch Lives

[bakana]

The Bush administration never met a bad idea they didn't like. See these links:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101040705-658321-1,00.html

http://www.idtrucking.org/archives/newsletters/february/highway.htm

N A T I O N
Eyes And Ears Of The Nation
By AMANDA RIPLEY/LITTLE ROCK

Thousands of truckers, bus drivers and rest-stop workers are being enlisted to spot terrorists. Is this comforting news?

STEVE JONES FOR TIME

I SPY: ôFrom trucks to taxis, school buses to NASCAR.ö ThatÆs the exuberant motto of a program to train drivers like Larry Lawson, of the Central Arkansas Transit Authority, to identify terrorists

Sunday, Jun. 27, 2004
On a blazing hot morning last week, 75 men and women of the highway ù bus drivers, truckers and van operators ù convened at a nondescript office building in Little Rock, Ark., to be trained as terrorist hunters. The Department of Homeland Security this year gave $19.3 million to the American Trucking Associations, which is based in Alexandria, Va., to recruit a volunteer "army" called Highway Watch. So far, 10,000 truckers have signed on to become amateur sleuths. Over the next year, the goal is to add tollbooth workers, rest-stop employees and construction crews, creating a corps of 400,000 people drawn from every state.

Waiting for the training to begin, Jo Anna Cartwright, who manages the rural public bus system in northern Arkansas, said she had not yet encountered any terrorists in her job, as far as she knew. "We got a terroristic phone call the other day," she said, "but it turned out it was just the boyfriend of an employee." Her bus drivers pay special attention to a gentleman from Afghanistan who recently married a regular rider, she said. Cartwright had come to the training to learn what else she could do.

More on the web sites...

[cruiser]

Nightwatch and the Dept. Of Homeland Security have several things in common. That is why it would be easy to say that the One is as bad as the other. But that is not the case. Just because public transportation operators are being trained to look for suspicious behavior doesn't mean that they are going to be reporting seditous behavior.
As was pointed out in the Time article you posted:

In 2002 the Justice Department proposed something called Operation TIPS, which would have encouraged not just truckers but also cable installers and mail carriers, among others, to report suspicious behavior. But before the program could begin, it was buried in opposition from the left and the right.

The recruitment of others was denied by congress.

If it's local neighborhood snoops getting involved in your personal business that your worried about then let's not forget about the Neighborhood Watch and DARE programs that have been around for decades now.

Perhaps Bush Bashing would be best viewed somewhere else.

When I had speech class in college the only banned topic was abortion. But one of the students got up and gave an anti-abortion speech the class became unmanageable and had to be dismissed early. Too many people felt to strongley about the subject to be able to talk about it in an orderly fashion. Perhaps this may be the case with this.

[cruiser]

I forgot...Are you a citizen of the U.S. bakana?

[Andrew_Swallow]

This programme is a good example of, if you aim at the wrong things you will miss the target.

There is little evidence that terrorists spend much time on interstate highways but that is where the truck drivers are.

Pizza delivery men and post men may be a better group to ask - they actually go to the city houses, flats and garages that terrorists use to plan attacks and build bombs. However before spending very large sums of money recruiting them, I would check to ensure that the ones who supplied the 1993 and 2001 attacks actually saw something suspicious.

Unless terrorists are not the real target of this programme.

[AaronB]

I know that I'll more then likely get bashed for this but aside from the topic, shouldn't this get moved to the Off Topic section?

[Dr Maturin]

<<Pizza delivery men and post men may be a better group to ask >>

Jerry Seinfeld on postmen: They have the uniform! Can't they do something?!

[grumbler]

Originally posted by cruiser
I forgot...Are you a citizen of the U.S. bakana?

Can you make this question somehow relevant to those of us who don't categorize opinion by nationality?

[grumbler]

Originally posted by thebaron
I know that I'll more then likely get bashed for this but aside from the topic, shouldn't this get moved to the Off Topic section?

I would argue to let us see where this goes and if the Nightwatch comparison isn't clear in another post by the original poster, send it to OT.

Which means I agree based on what we have seen, but think maybe I am missing the intent of bakana.

[Radhil]

It'll be Nightwatch if they start giving 'em guns.

That said, this crap scares me. Hell, I wanted to take a picture of a bridge under construction last year. It would have looked cool to my younger cousins. But of course, even I knew better at that point. You'll wanna beware of folk that act interested, or stand out... they're the ones to watch out for....

I'm depressed now. I thought TIPPS was beaten out. But like every other bad idea... it just found a new department.

[cruiser]

Can you make this question somehow relevant to those of us who don't categorize opinion by nationality?

Some of us do categorize by nationality....especially when it comes to internal security. But the important point has been made. As long as these initiatives are aimed at the proper target and not used to quell normal(?) dissent then they are 'good'. If others from other countries want to comment on the internal affairs of the U.S. then by all means do so. I just don't believe this is the proper forum for this subject.

When I had speech class in college the only banned topic was abortion. But one of the students got up and gave an anti-abortion speech the class became unmanageable and had to be dismissed early. Too many people felt to strongley about the subject to be able to talk about it in an orderly fashion. Perhaps this may be the case with this.

I come here to read and sometimes comment on B5. And I just don't like reality barging in on my recreation.

I for one am most afraid of the U.S. becoming a police state. I come from Illinois, well known for it's handling of the 1968 DNC riots. Seeing the injuries suffered by those in the way of Illinois State Police vehicles wrapped in barbed wire whilst driving thru a crowd makes it somehow personal. Hearing their stories was even more frightening.

Liberty and freedom of speech and all the other rights granted by the constitution and it's amendments should not be diminished just because of a terrorist act. But to bury your head in the sand and to act like it didn't happen violates the second law of armed combat: Do not ignore the objective realities of the situation. And we are in a combat situation. Only the battleground has been hidden away, only to be announced at the place and time of attack. And we have been attacked. Not by another nation but by an idealistic group of individuals. One of the only advantages we may have is to see the terrorists in the final days, hours, minutes or seconds before they attack.

Our military took an oath to never be caught flat footed again. 'Remember Pearl Harbor!!!! Lest we forget'

Except the next surpise attack wasn't on a military target. It was civilian. Will you be next?

[Andrew_Swallow]

Originally posted by cruiser
Our military took an oath to never be caught flat footed again. 'Remember Pearl Harbor!!!! Lest we forget'

Except the next surpise attack wasn't on a military target. It was civilian. Will you be next?

The Pentagon is a military target. It was attacked on the same day as the two towers.

Assume that a new enemy's first surprise attack will always get through.

A realistic aim is to have the stategic and tactical flexability to stop the second attack.

[colonyearth]

While such moves by and within our government scare the shit out of me...for the early stages of Nightwatch it is...have no doubt...I will say that I really and truly do believe this needs to be moved to the Off Topic section.

We have many a long and often times heated discussions on such matters over a B5tv...but they are kept in the Off Topic area.

I have been surprised, actually, that such discussions have not arisen here as well. Guess it was only a matter of time.

As to coming to the forum to read about B5 and not wanting to read such matters...then my only advice to you, cruiser, is this (and I say this with all due respect): Don't read the thread.

That all being said...I hope Doug will move this somewhere more appropriate on the forum. I love such discussions, but it really doesn't belong under Babylon 5 even with the loose tie it has to the series.

This will get wildly away from the light comparison to nightwatch...I can tell you. Hell, it already has really.

CE

[cruiser]

Where's the blasted v-chip when you need it.....

[bakana]

Gee. implied attack right off the bat.

Yes, I'm a US Citizen. Born and Raised.

Are YOU a Republican or a Bush Supporter?

(I realize the two are Not the same.)

Now, Back to the topic:

I was looking at the nice innocuous way the program is starting out:

First, give them a neat window sticker. And a little wallet card.

Second. An occasional meeting where they can pat each other on the back and congratulate themselves on their patriotism. And, of course, maybe have a few beers.

Third. Give them a phone number so they can report "Suspicious" characters. Oh, and anyone with a bumper sticker they don't like...

Once you've done that, wait a while, then start creating "Solidarity" among the membership.

How about everybody just sort of agrees to wear the same style and color shirts & pants. Not a "Uniform". Just let's show out Pride in our Patriotism where Everyone can see who we are.
Well, OK, a Uniform.

Then, the cheerleading at meetings gets very "Pro Bush" and the mesage becomes make sure all your Family, friends and neighbors Vote and that they Vote The Right Way, of course.

Keep track of those Unpatriotic Traitors who disagree with you. Maybe call that phone number about some of the more articulate ones. (Them smart bastids is Dangerous.) For the rest of them, well, their day will come.

(It worked for Adolph in Germany. I think they called the payoff "The Night of the Long Knives".)


What sort of people will this sort of program attract? Busybodies, goes without saying. Guys who think anyone who Disagrees with the "Party Line" is a commie pinko terrorist. Especially those who think CPTs should have their Butts Kicked and are ready to Join Up for a chance to get a boot or two in.

It'll be Most attractive to the guy who wasn't quite acceptable as a Police Officer because he was just Too Much of a bully to stomach. The sort of guy who is all too willing to "Enforce the laws" the courts are too liberal wimpy to enforce. The Laws of GHOD as revealed by the voices in the beer can.

We had that sort of organization once before in this country. It went by the initials KKK. They worked for "Free" and enforced all sorts of "Unwritten Laws of Ghod".

And this time, they don't even have to buy new sheets for the bed.


Now do you see the slippery slope ???

[cruiser]

I have created a new thread in the off-topic discussion area with an identical thread topic.