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Comparison between Lorien and ... Lucifer?

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  • #46
    No one seriously is forming any kind of atheistic religion around JMS...no.
    speaking as an atheist myself, you had better belive that is about the silliest idea that anyone can come up with.

    atheist religion..... i wonder if that would classify as an oxymoron?
    "The trouble with being a cynic is that you eventually get labelled as a highly reliable fortune-teller"

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    • #47
      <<atheist religion..... i wonder if that would classify as an oxymoron? >>

      This is all assuming belief in a god is religious and not spiritual. So of course there could be an athiest religion. Perhaps it would revolve around humanism or some such.
      Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller
        [BThis is all assuming belief in a god is religious and not spiritual. So of course there could be an athiest religion. Perhaps it would revolve around humanism or some such. [/B]
        From MSN Encarta:
        reÀliÀgion [ ri lÝjjən ] (plural reÀliÀgions)

        noun

        1. religion beliefs and worship: peopleÆs beliefs and opinions concerning the existence, nature, and worship of a deity or deities, and divine involvement in the universe and human life

        2. religion particular system: a particular institutionalized or personal system of beliefs and practices relating to the divine

        3. personal beliefs or values: a set of strongly-held beliefs, values, and attitudes that somebody lives by

        4. obsession: an object, practice, cause, or activity that somebody is completely devoted to or obsessed by

        5. christianity monkÆs or nunÆs life: life as a monk or a nun, especially in the Roman Catholic Church

        [12th century. Via Anglo-Norman religiun , from Old French religion , from the Latin stem religion- ôobligation, reverence,ö of uncertain origin: probably formed from religare (see rely).]
        Numbers 3 and 4 do not mention the divine, but 1, 2, and 5 do. Also the etymoligical information at the end seems more inclined, although not definitively so, toward the divine with the inclusion of reverence. Still and all, I think it would qualify as an oxymoron since it only requires that the words seem contradictory.
        "That was the law, as set down by Valen. Three castes: worker, religious, warrior."

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        • #49
          Um....

          It was meant as an oxymoron when I first wrote it.

          Boy, make a joke and people start looking shit up in the dictionary.



          CE
          Anthony Flessas
          Writer/Producer/Director,
          SP Pictures


          I have no avatar! I walk in mystery and need nothing to represent who and what I am!

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          • #50
            Why do Christians always think everything is inspired by their beliefs?[/B]
            I am sorry if that is how it came across, I was just pointing out that it had been stated earlier in the post..(i forgot whichone) that JMS, while admittedly not religious, had claimed to read the entire bible through twice.. And that lead me to conclude (erroneously or not) that he may possibly have modeled part ot the scheme after the role of Christ in the Bible.

            Make no mistake, I have no delusions of thinking that the entire show was based entirely on the Bible.. Anymore than the entire show was based on Arthurian legends, or Taoism.....
            Though again, all characters and religious ideologies in B5 are offshoots, thoughts, cosmologies, scientific theories, and people inspired by ancient myths and legend throughout human history, not one religion.
            If you refer to JMS' own statements on the Season 1DVD he says the B5 was founded on the basis of Babylonian mythology... that is why the war was not between good and evil as it is in the Bible, but between order and chaos--the Babylonian belief that all life was a struggle between Chaos and Order..the Babylonians believed that peace for mankind would be achieved not by the dominace of one over the other, but by balance being found between the two..and Oftentimes in their mythological stories great tragedies happened when one beat the other.

            So, again I apologize for seeming arrogant in your opinion..I did not mean "to thump the book of G'kuan"..
            can we laugh it off now?
            There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against such power, governments, and kingdoms, and conquerors cannot stand.
            WE WILL BE FREE!

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            • #51
              Originally posted by colonyearth
              Um....

              It was meant as an oxymoron when I first wrote it.

              Boy, make a joke and people start looking shit up in the dictionary.



              CE
              To paraphrase Chief Brody, "We're gonna need a bigger grin!" Really, honest and for truly, I made the grin as big as I could!! I liked "athiest religion" as an oxymoron and was standing with you all the way, CE! And as for looking stuff up, the internet means I don't have to carry my dictionary with me!
              "That was the law, as set down by Valen. Three castes: worker, religious, warrior."

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              • #52
                Well, very early on, there was the
                First Amalgamated Church of Joe
                Church of Joe

                Then, a bit later came
                The Order of the
                Sisters of Zathras


                "The Sisters of Zathras...now *there's* a convent worth joining."
                --jms
                Sisters of Zathras

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                • #53
                  There is even Sacred Music...


                  A Hymn of the Sisters of Zathras
                  (with apologies to Jerry Herman)

                  Hello, Draaly, well, hello, Draaly.
                  Can you help us get them back where they belong?
                  You're doin' swell, Draaly,
                  we can tell, Draaly,
                  time rift's growin', strain is showin',
                  can you keep goin' strong?
                  The Great Machine's swayin'
                  for Minbar's prayin'
                  that we'll take old Bab'lon 4 to way back when.
                  So, take us there, fellas,
                  find us Jeffery Sinclair, fellas.
                  Draaly'll never go away again.

                  Hello, Draaly, well, hello, Draaly.
                  It's so nice to be back here where you belong.
                  You're looking strange, Draaly,
                  what a change! Draaly,
                  you're now glowin', you've stopped growin',
                  you're still goin' strong.
                  The Great Machine's cookin'
                  I wanna try lookin'
                  for some helpful First Ones who lived way back when.
                  So take the Path, Susan,
                  find Clark's evil plan, Susan.
                  Draaly'll never go away again.

                  Hello, Draaly, well, hello, Draaly.
                  It's so nice to be back here where you belong.
                  You doin' swell, Draaly?
                  We can't tell, Draaly,
                  There's no knowin', are you're glowin'?
                  Are you still goin' strong?
                  The Great Machine's copin'
                  and B5's hopin'
                  that you'll help us broadcast back to Earth again.
                  So, golly ghu, fellas,
                  find us a Zathras 2, fellas.
                  Draaly'll never go away,
                  Draaly'll never go away,
                  Oops,
                  I guess Draaly's gone away again.

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                  • #54
                    Question.---Are the sisters of Zathras above the sisters of Zathras? or of Zathras' sister, Zathras? Or are they not related to that Zathras, but related to his friend, Zathras? I know a Zathras, but he has no sister, so i geuss they couldn' t be related to him.. Then again they could be related to his mother Zathras, which would make them Zathras' aunt.

                    Then again if they were not really Zathras' sister, but instead sister to each other, would they really be Zathras' sister?

                    ohh..I am dizzy now..think I will lie down..
                    There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against such power, governments, and kingdoms, and conquerors cannot stand.
                    WE WILL BE FREE!

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      I forgot which thread we were discussing JMS' influences on B5, so I figured this one is as good as any.

                      I received my Star Blazers series 1 set from deepdiscountdvd in prompt fashion and in pristine condition. I watched the first disc and remembered how much I loved the show at the age of eight. Anyways, I had totally forgotten about the Gamilon "planet bombs" which look very similar in appearance and practice as the asteroids that mass drivers create. Very interesting indeed.

                      In addition, one of the characters' voices in the Earth HQ sounds like Boxleitner, but his name is not in the credits. I can almost swear to you it is him. Maybe it's just the northern accent.

                      But if anyone hasn't seen this show, then if you have the means, see it. Good show and revolutionary in its own time and still holds up.

                      You may cringe at stuff like warping "thousands of lightyears" from Earth to Mars, but that is probably something buggered up in the translation.
                      Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        In Michael Moorcock's books the Chronicles of Elric of Melnibone there were the humans and 3 groups - the Lords of Order, the Lords of Chaos and a group/individual in the middle. Lorien is probably the middle group. (I cannot remember their/his name.)
                        Andrew Swallow

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by colonyearth
                          Um....

                          It was meant as an oxymoron when I first wrote it.

                          Boy, make a joke and people start looking shit up in the dictionary.



                          CE
                          Well... at least they are thinking and researching. *shrugs*

                          basically I have found all the replies extremely interesting.
                          The Eagle stood erect on the Mountain watched the ships arrive.

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