Babylon5 and Torchwood

[ZenoParadoxus]

I saw on io9 this morning an unusual criticism of JMS with relation to the forthcoming Torchwood mini-series. I have to say that I disagree completely with the author (as do many of the comments below at that link).

One of things that struck me watching Captain Power, lo those many years ago, was that events that happened in one episode would affect subsequent episodes. The convention in television at the time (and still largely today) was that individual episodes were more or less independent. This was due to multiple writers being responsible for episodes being written contemporaneously. More importantly, it meant that the series could later be shown in syndication with much less work.

JMS hardly invented the idea of arcs (which goes back to at least the serials), and Babylon5 was hardly the only show to embrace this (Buffy, V, Battlestar Galactica - the original series). I think that JMS can take credit for pushing the trend as far as humanly possible, but I have never thought that it was a bad thing...

Zeno

[Jan]

I think I can live with it if that's the worst thing JMS is accused of. And...a Brit complaining of shows with arcs?? There's something wrong with that picture!

If I were to venture an uninformed opinion, I'd blame DVDs for the change. Up until DVDs came along it was more important for shows to not have to be shown in order for the sake of syndication. Even when VHS was popular you'd generally be able to buy tapes with favorite episodes. But when DVDs came along, it became the thing to buy entire seasons and my gut feeling is that DVD sales rather than syndication became more important if for now other reason than the fact that you could put a season set out on DVD almost immediately after the season aired.

I don't think super-tight arcs are going to be around forever but loose arcs are great, imo and I'll definitely never regret the passing of the 'reset button'.

Jan

[JoeD80]

I call BS on this part of the article: "being hopelessly confused" if you started watching in season 3. Joe tended to introduce needed exposition into the episode being aired.

The convention in television at the time (and still largely today) was that individual episodes were more or less independent. This was due to multiple writers being responsible for episodes being written contemporaneously.

It's not really due to that; one of the story editor's jobs is supposed to be keeping track of all the episodes and making them fit together. When the show doesn't really do that, it's likely that they didn't have the greatest story editor. On Captain Power, jms was the story editor. Well you can draw your own conclusions about why the arcs tended to fit together...

JMS hardly invented the idea of arcs (which goes back to at least the serials), and Babylon5 was hardly the only show to embrace this (Buffy, V, Battlestar Galactica - the original series). I think that JMS can take credit for pushing the trend as far as humanly possible, but I have never thought that it was a bad thing...

I agree with that; there were arcs long before Babylon 5. I think Joe did bring a couple of new concepts to arcs though -- a planned ending he was heading towards, and planning five years. On shows like Dallas and Northern Exposure, the arc would be laid out for the current season with no idea what the next season would bring, and no idea how many seasons the show would run. Since television is renewed on a year-to-year basis, it tends to keep people from planning much past the current season.

But when DVDs came along, it became the thing to buy entire seasons and my gut feeling is that DVD sales rather than syndication became more important if for now other reason than the fact that you could put a season set out on DVD almost immediately after the season aired.

I think you hit the nail on the head here. DVD viewers are more in the mood for marathons and long arcs.

I don't think super-tight arcs are going to be around forever but loose arcs are great, imo and I'll definitely never regret the passing of the 'reset button'.

I think small arcs carrying across episodes seem to work well. Take a look at House; plenty of stand-alone episodes dealing with each new medical case while there's small dramatic arcs that carry over the season with the changes staying permanent. e.g. once House's original team split up, they stayed split up.

Currently I'm looking forward to seeing how Nurse Jackie does with its arcs.

[DGTWoodward]

I agree with that; there were arcs long before Babylon 5. I think Joe did bring a couple of new concepts to arcs though -- a planned ending he was heading towards, and planning five years.

I think, to go a little further with this, that there is a difference between..

1) An arc proper as with BABYLON 5.

As mentioned, this was THE SHOW to truly encompass a full and united beginning, middle and end in a TV series that was not a specific adapation. It really played 'like a book, with each episode acting as an individual chapter' to paraphrase JMS.

and

2) The basic concept of the show...

V, Battlestar Galactica - the original series

Anybody that watched these shows can see that these were never (nor were they ever intended to be) true arcs in the way that B5 was. The 'arc' of so many shows of that time was purely the most basic of driving tools specific to getting the heroes into trouble which would be solved by the end of the hour. No movement forward was made... Logan would never end his run. The visitors would never be defeated and the Earth would (at least) be rodent free, the Galacticans would never actually find Earth. They were shows that were never designed to end. Even, dare I say...classic TREK fell into this mold.

The 'arc' such as it was, was designed to keep the story open and running, AND NOT to move it to a conclusion. That was why so many of these shows never got past one season. It did not take long for the audiences to realise that the show, whilst enjoyable, would just drag on ad infenitum

That was in fact one of the many things that JMS was trying to change. The difference maker was the planned ending.

Would BUFFY have had the end it got if the idea behind B5 hadn't already began to make inroads into producer's minds? I don't know abut this particular one, though. Joss W is a very talented and capable writer (shame about his WONDER WOMAN movie) so I am certain that the final episode idea would have occured to him to at some point. Plus, as I understand it, he and JMS are friends anyway so many a 'fireside chat' regarding this point would not have been an ususal thing either, I would imagine.