Babylon 5 Audio Dramas ?

[Truth66]

Last night I started listening to my Star Wars: Dark Empire CD's again. It had been awhile since I listened to the whole story since finally tracking down the entire set to include Empire's End. It got me thinking, has there been any discussions about creating some full cast audio dramas for Babylon 5?
We all know that there have been B5 books and such, but even those books were never adapted for audio in the same way that Star Wars novels have.
I have to admit that I never purchased any of the B5 novels or any Star Wars novels either for that matter. I did however, purchase many of the audio versions of the Star Wars novels. This is because of my limited time to do any kind of recreational reading. It's much easier to pop in the audio and listen while doing other things.
The only other Full Cast Audio story that I'm familiar with besides Dark Empire was Star Trek: Borg.
Personally I think that JMS could tap into a whole new market by creating, or allowing others to create scripts for these Full Cast Audio CD's. It would be a very economical, not to mention profitable way to continue some of the story lines from Crusade and others.

[KoshN]

Last night I started listening to my Star Wars: Dark Empire CD's again. It had been awhile since I listened to the whole story since finally tracking down the entire set to include Empire's End. It got me thinking, has there been any discussions about creating some full cast audio dramas for Babylon 5?
We all know that there have been B5 books and such, but even those books were never adapted for audio in the same way that Star Wars novels have.
I have to admit that I never purchased any of the B5 novels or any Star Wars novels either for that matter. I did however, purchase many of the audio versions of the Star Wars novels. This is because of my limited time to do any kind of recreational reading. It's much easier to pop in the audio and listen while doing other things.

It's also easy to read traditional novels a bit at a time, whenever you have a few minutes. I'd be for audionovels of the existing #7, #9 and the three Del Rey trilogies, as long as they were unabridged. However, audionovels are usually quite pricey compared to traditional paperbacks, ~$45 vs. ~$8.

The only other Full Cast Audio story that I'm familiar with besides Dark Empire was Star Trek: Borg.
Personally I think that JMS could tap into a whole new market by creating, or allowing others to create scripts for these Full Cast Audio CD's. It would be a very economical, not to mention profitable way to continue some of the story lines from Crusade and others.

Well, that'd certainly be nice, and I very much like the idea, and would go for them in a heartbeat (I love radio dramas, and how they let your imagination fill in all the blanks.), but that's a big step down in prestige (for JMS, for the cast, the studio, for the B5 franchise, etc.), and I doubt that anybody (Warner Brothers, JMS, or any of the B5 or Crusade cast) would be interested in taking the time to make episodes as audio CDs. They probably don't think that there's enough money in it. For example, I can't see Gary Cole being interested in this kind of thing. I WISH, but IMHO, it's a pipe dream.

B5 and by extension Crusade, seems to be at an extreme low ebb right now, and I doubt that we'll see new story in the future, in any form. The B5 franchise's heartbeat is a very low rate, like right before it goes flatline. I think the studio, JMS and the cast have given up on it.

We have what has already been made. Enjoy that.

OTOH, if you want, why not mention new B5 or Crusade story as audiodramas to JMS at rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated and see what he says. Things have been sooo dead for sooo long, who knows, he might notice the slight uptick, be intrigued and respond. Can't hurt, right? I'd do it, but I don't want it to look like I'm taking credit for your ideas, and because I'm persona non grata and don't post there anymore. So, this is something that I can't take part in pushing, over there, and if I did, people would probably be reflexively against it, and would say I was tilting at windmills. Somebody, other than me, would have to mention it.

[Jan]

Sorry to throw the wet blanket over any hopes, but JMS reitterated on Friday night that there wouldn't be any new B5 until and unless it's a big-budget feature.

In fact, I was quite surprised that he seems to regret having done pretty much everything after the 5-year series, including Crusade.

Jan

[KoshN]

Sorry to throw the wet blanket over any hopes, but JMS reitterated on Friday night that there wouldn't be any new B5 until and unless it's a big-budget feature.

Well that pretty much puts the final nail in the coffin. He's stonewalling Warner Brothers, and Warner Brothers will never give in. Neither side will ever blink.

In fact, I was quite surprised that he seems to regret having done pretty much everything after the 5-year series, including Crusade.

At what event did you see and hear JMS say this? Got any quotes? Transcripts?

ps. For me, Crusade holds up well, and kinda feels like the good ol' days, when a good B5 story could still be told.

[Dr Maturin]

Did you actually like Dark Empire and Empire's End?

I have Heir to the Empire and Dark Force Rising on audio. They are abridged. Denis Lawson and Anthony Daniels did a good job on them.

I don't blame JMS. B5 is now in the past. He has the chance to make megabucks writing movies that I will never see. He should keep going on those and if they decide to let him do B5, fine, but it's not something he should pursue.

[Jan]

Well that pretty much puts the final nail in the coffin. He's stonewalling Warner Brothers, and Warner Brothers will never give in. Neither side will ever blink.

Stonewalling? How so? Last we heard, there were some nibbles from WB. I'm in full agreement with him that only a properly funded project go forward.

At what event did you see and hear JMS say this? Got any quotes? Transcripts?

See above in the General Discussions forum. JMS appeared at MIT last Friday evening. No transcripts yet. It was a 3 hour session so it's likely that the DVD of his speech and Q&A with the program director will be out before I get much of anything transcribed.

ps. For me, Crusade holds up well, and kinda feels like the good ol' days, when a good B5 story could still be told.

I was surprised when he included Crusade with the things he felt detracted from the original B5 story.

Jan

[KoshN]

Stonewalling? How so? Last we heard, there were some nibbles from WB. I'm in full agreement with him that only a properly funded project go forward.

Picture JMS with his arms crossed in front of him, with his back to Warner Brothers, saying "I'm only interested in doing anything new in the B5 universe if it's a big-budget feature film. Harrumph!" What I mean by stonewalling is that he's ONLY interested in doing new B5 as a big budget feature film, i.e. he's ruled out all other forms (e.g. TV miniseries, TV series, novels, graphic novels, audio dramas, etc.). It is possible that these other forms could be properly funded, and probably for a lot less money, and the idea of less money would probably appeal to Warner Brothers. JMS wants the big splash of a big budget feature film, and Warner Brothers won't want to risk the money.

See above in the General Discussions forum. JMS appeared at MIT last Friday evening. No transcripts yet. It was a 3 hour session so it's likely that the DVD of his speech and Q&A with the program director will be out before I get much of anything transcribed.

Hmm, I might be interested in buying that DVD.

I was surprised when he included Crusade with the things he felt detracted from the original B5 story.

He's probably just saying that to get Crusade detractors on his side.

Check out "Fox intends to renew Dollhouse, I want to believe, but ..." from my Tuesday, May 19, 2009 2:26 PM post on down, especially the responses to this post in rec.arts.sf.tv and rec.arts.tv (my words are in RED):

Mac Breck wrote:
> Ken from Chicago wrote:
>> "Mac Breck" wrote in message
>> news[email protected]
>>> Ian Galbraith wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 18 May 2009 05:19:58 -0400, Mac Breck wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ian Galbraith wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 17 May 2009 00:46:45 -0400, Mac Breck wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [snip]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I blame FOX for *renewing* Dollhouse. FOX picks good, quirky
>>>>>>> shows and crap quirky shows and then usually gives the good ones
>>>>>>> no chance to survive, and while the crap ones get renewed for
>>>>>>> awhile before being killed off.>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have you seen more than 2 episodes yet?
>>>>
>>>>> More than 2 complete episodes, no, that's all I could take.>>>>
>>>> The show did move in a different direction in the second half of
>>>> the season. Imagine judging Crusade on its first 2 episodes.
>>>
>>> Oh, I already *knew* that's where you were going with this.
>>> Wouldn't want to be to Dollhouse, what Captain Infinity was/is to
>>> Crusade. :-O Well, to be that, I'd have to make a petition
>>> *against* and campaign *against* Dollhouse. The closest I came to
>>> that was voting against it in the Zap2It Renewal Poll (and I voted
>>> just once on every show.). The thing is, I can't take more than a
>>> little Dushku in a supporting role (e.g. Faith in BtVS & Angel),
>>> and I didn't/don't feel that way about Gary Cole in Crusade. In
>>> fact, before Crusade, I'd never been particularly enthused about
>>> Gary Cole (Office Space, A Simple Plan, & In the Line of Fire), and
>>> only actually liked him in the couple of episodes of Midnight
>>> Caller that I managed to see. With Crusade, I became somewhat of a
>>> fan of Gary Cole, and went on to watch all of American Gothic
>>> (which I liked.), and *very* *much* liked his guest stint on Hack
>>> ("Brothers in Arms" - *great* ep.). The more I see of Gary Cole,
>>> the *more* I like him. The more I see of Dushku, the *less* I like
>>> her. Some people grow on you, and some really don't. For me,
>>> Dushku's the latter. However, I can still take her in limited
>>> amounts, but _not_ as a lead taking up a lot of screentime.
>>>
>>> Maybe I'll watch Season 1 via Netflix when the DVDs come out, but
>>> I'm not sure I'll be able to make it all the way through 'em. My
>>> aversion to Dushku isn't as pointed and extreme as my aversion to
>>> American Idol and Dancing with the Stars, but it's close every time
>>> I see that blank eyed ED stare.>>>
>>> --
>>> Mac Breck (KoshN)
>>
>> You had to learn to control your fear of Gary Cole!
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37wqulCnKbE
>>
>> -- Ken from Chicago
>
> Out of all that, where did you get "fear" of Gary Cole?
>
> Tell you what I'd fear, a re-imagining of Crusade with the following
> cast:
>
> Eliza Dushku ... Capt. Gideon
> Kate Mulgrew ... Capt. Elizabeth Lochley
> Olivier Gruner ... Lt. John Matheson (P6 Telepath)
> Stephen Baldwin ... Max Eilerson
> Myriam Sirois ... Gale the Technomage
> (http://amazon.imdb.com/name/nm0802897/ - OMG, she got on an ep. of
> Supernatural.)
> Fran Drescher ... Dr. Sarah Chambers
> Julia Louis-Dreyfus ... Dureena Nafeel
>
> <shudders>

[Dr Maturin]

I've seen some well-thought-out critiques of Crusade, some by B5 fans, some by others. I actually like Cole and Woodward as actors, but when I have tried to watch the series since the first time, it doesn't ring true to B5. If he were to ever "finish" the story in any format, JMS should reboot it.

[KoshN]

I've seen some well-thought-out critiques of Crusade, some by B5 fans, some by others. I actually like Cole and Woodward as actors, but when I have tried to watch the series since the first time, it doesn't ring true to B5.

Just to attempt to quantify things, to give them a sense how well I think they fit in the B5 universe, Crusade rings true to B5, for me, ten thousand times more than the Rangers pilot, and hundreds of times more than the Lost Tales DVD.

[Jan]

He's probably just saying that to get Crusade detractors on his side.

Why would he want to do that? It's unlikely that anybody in that audience could effect things one way or the other. JMS is generally pretty straightforward.

I'll listen again later on and possibly transcribe that question and his answer.

Jan

[Truth66]

With regards to Dark Empire. It wasn't bad. I just liked the idea of a full cast audio drama. Of the other Star Wars audios that I have I would have to say that the Timothy Zahn ones are my favourite, followed by the Han Solo Trilogy which is The Paradise Snare, The Hutt Gambit & Rebel Dawn.
As for B5, a full cast audio drama doesn't have to be done by the original cast, as nice as that would be. In the Dark Empire audio drama the only original actor is Billy Dee Williams.
This goes back to one of my long standing arguements of B5. B5 was never properly marketed like other Sci Fi series have been, whether it be television or film. Yet B5 has far better quality than some of the others. I'm sure that if B5 was better marketed from day one, we would've had a feature film long before now.
JMS did start the ball rolling in expanding the B5 universe by allowing a series of books to be written and then it stopped. Let's do a comparison search with Amazon.com

"Star Wars books": 11,371

"Star Trek books": 8,355

"Babylon 5 books": 607

Fine Tune the search even further.

"Star Wars Audio Books": 333

"Star Trek Audio Books": 345

"Babylon 5 Audio Books": 8 (none of these are actual audio novels though)

These search results show that there's defintely an expanded market in these formats that JMS didn't really tap into. Afterall JMS did expand his market for B5 by doing the script books and other online merchandise. Therefore, why not expand it further with Full Cast Audio Dramas?

[Jan]

These search results show that there's defintely an expanded market in these formats that JMS didn't really tap into. Afterall JMS did expand his market for B5 by doing the script books and other online merchandise. Therefore, why not expand it further with Full Cast Audio Dramas?

The main thing to remember is that JMS isn't going to be the one to pursue something like this. It would be up to a company who wanted to do these audio dramas to approach WB first. JMS has often said that he loves the audio drama format so there's the chance he'd go along with it. As for the cast, I know that Pat Tallman and Claudia Christian have done several of the Anne Manx audio drama series so those two at least might be interested. I wouldn't be surprised if others might be also.

But it all begins with some company pursuing it, not JMS trying to sell it. That's simply not going to happen, I don't think.

Jan

[Triple F]

ItÆs interesting that joe said a big budget (properly funded) movie an excluded everything else. I assume that includes properly funded television series.

Has anyone asked him that for clarification? Possibly more relevantly, has anyone ever talked to Warner to get their side of the things. I know jms is more accessable, but that just means we keep hearing one side of that three edged sword. Some, IÆm sure unintental, bias is bound to creep in over the years.

If the movie or nothing is the situation then itÆs hard to ignore part of the reason for that. He owns the rights to a B5 movie and gets those mega bucks. I donÆt have a problem with him wanting to make some more money off the name he created, but lets not ignore what at least part of his motivation behind the declaration is, and the timing of it.

There are times he appears to play fast and loose with the expectations and loyalty of the fan base. ItÆs a question thatÆs been no doubt asked many times before. Why not get some other writers he knows and trusts to carry on with the stories, or create new ones, in whatever format? If the answer is - why should he, itÆs his creation. Then that basically means that the show was an ego tripe and the fans where just a viewing statistic along for the ride.

jms often states things in relation to whatÆs best for the fans, what we deserve. ItÆs arrogant, whoever may imply it, that no one else can write a half decent B5 story which is outside the 5 year frame of the original series û he did that, it worked great so itÆs time to move on. If that means jms is prepared to let B5 die, then fine. But heÆs not saying that û heÆs dangling a carrot waiting to see what bites.

As for LoTR, Crusade and LT being not so good. Well, thatÆs because B5 was a sum of creative parts, many of which were not around by the time the 5 years where up.

[Jan]

Has anyone asked him that for clarification?

I'll see about transcribing what JMS said about it on Friday later on today.

Possibly more relevantly, has anyone ever talked to Warner to get their side of the things.

How does one go about talking to a corporation? Seriously, the only possibility I can see would be talking to some public relations office and that's hardly any way to get real answers to anything.

There are times he appears to play fast and loose with the expectations and loyalty of the fan base. ItÆs a question thatÆs been no doubt asked many times before. Why not get some other writers he knows and trusts to carry on with the stories, or create new ones, in whatever format? If the answer is - why should he, itÆs his creation. Then that basically means that the show was an ego tripe and the fans where just a viewing statistic along for the ride.

I'm not sure what you're trying to imply here. The only multi-episode sample we have post-B5 is Crusade and there were assignments out with three other writers and Fiona Avery that would have made the first season half or nearly half written by other writers. So he's obviously not averse to having other writers play in his universe.

I know I keep repeating myself but what people don't seem to understand is that JMS does not go out selling the show any longer. It's not his to sell. If anybody wants to do anything with it, they have to approach WB. It's simply *not* going to happen any other way. JMS *can't* shop it around and WB *won't*.

And frankly, he's moved on. It's been made pretty clear that, while there may be TV projects in the future, for the most part his career now is in movies.

Jan

[Triple F]

I hear you about how do you contact a corporation. I also understand that joeÆs rightly moved on. I think heÆs in the same position that some musicians have where they set out a concert promoting an album of their new work but thereÆs always a section of the audience wanting to hear the classics. I imagine it can get irritating.

Joe still has a connection with B5 through the publication of books. While thatÆs partly for bit of spending cash itÆs also the most efficient way of providing that much needed new content fix that some folks have. I imagine it might keep the spark of hope in a few folks minds as well that heÆs still actively interested in expanding the stories. The big budget movie idea also does the same thing.

The reason for mentioning the bit about the ego trip (without an e) is that it ties in with what Warners approach to all this is. You say they wonÆt shop the show around û possibly giving new writers a chance û but how do you *know* that. Like I said, and no disrespect intended, we generally only ever hear joeÆs side of things when asked a specific question, and itÆs clear he still has some type of veto which he exercises. Mongoose & PC games being the obvious and most recent ones we know about.

As you say, Warner is a corporation and therefore the easy one to lay any blame - if you want to aportion it - on. For example did jms give a specific budget for new LTÆs I only remember vague numbers being mentioned û nothing specific.

Over the years, has he ever commented on the idea of a B5 related show without him invoved as a writer?