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  • A better question is why coffee would be short at all? It travels very well and can be stored indefinately.
    Shipping Weight.
    Shipping stuff all the way from Earth would be VERY Expensive.
    Starships cost Billions of dollars to build and the people who own them want their Money back.
    It's not like here where coffee can be loaded onto a slow freighter.
    It's the equivalent of flying it first class on a 747.

    Plus, there seems to be a Bureaucraticly approved LIST of foods that can be shipped.
    Probably to encourage local food production.

    We saw the same thing when Garibaldi needed the ingredients for Baugna.

    Comment


    • While it is true that space is an issue with 1000's of ships flying through I would think people would mind shiping Freezedried and dried produocts. Such products take up much less space that there fresh conterparts. I mean thats what astronots eat in orbit. Because your still going to be shipping food it just the natural order of thing most places can't product food year round. While it is true that space on a ship is an issue with 1000's of ships flying around I would think people would not mind shipping Freeze-dried and dried products. Such products take up much less space than there fresh counterparts. ThatÆs what astronauts eat in orbit to save space for experiments. Because youÆre still going to be need to ship food it just the natural order of things most places can't product food year round. They might be some stock piles but new and expanding worlds are still going to need food to say nothing of shortages.

      Also you should look at the Example of the Silk Road. The Romans loved Chinese Silk. It took mouths to travel between the two countries Add to that Bandits and the natural hazards of living 2000 years ago. Basically what IÆm saying that you would have to be crazy to want to do this. Yet people did it anyways The same would be true is space there are always going to be people who want to eat a little something from home like Garibaldi maybe they canÆt afford it all the time. But if everyone buys it once in a while you have a market, and if there money to be made Business will convince the government to let them do it.
      "Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Champagne in one hand - strawberries in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming WOW - What a RIDE!"

      Comment


      • <<While it is true that space is an issue with 1000's of ships flying through I would think people would mind shiping Freezedried and dried produocts. Such products take up much less space that there fresh conterparts. I mean thats what astronots eat in orbit. Because your still going to be shipping food it just the natural order of thing most places can't product food year round. While it is true that space on a ship is an issue with 1000's of ships flying around I would think people would not mind shipping Freeze-dried and dried products. Such products take up much less space than there fresh counterparts. ThatÆs what astronauts eat in orbit to save space for experiments. Because youÆre still going to be need to ship food it just the natural order of things most places can't product food year round. >>

        Are you eating Domino's Pizza?
        Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

        Comment


        • what does this have anything to do with "Are you eating Domino's Pizza?"

          I was simplify arguing the counterpoint.
          "Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Champagne in one hand - strawberries in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming WOW - What a RIDE!"

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller

            Are you eating Domino's Pizza?
            Huh? Is that meaningful?

            Jan
            "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

            Comment


            • <<Huh? Is that meaningful?>>

              Everyone is talking double with Domino's Doublemelt Pizza!
              Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by bakana
                Shipping Weight.
                Shipping weight is not prohibitive. I have had coffee in the Indian Ocean any numer of times.

                Shipping stuff all the way from Earth would be VERY Expensive.
                Starships cost Billions of dollars to build and the people who own them want their Money back.
                It's not like here where coffee can be loaded onto a slow freighter.
                It's the equivalent of flying it first class on a 747.
                But this is an argument against anything whatever reaching B5. When you have a popular and easily shipped product like coffee being unavailable on B5, you are arguing that nothing, no matter how profitable, will reach the station.

                Plus, there seems to be a Bureaucraticly approved LIST of foods that can be shipped.
                Probably to encourage local food production.
                This would work except that coffee is both good for morale and difficult to produce locally.

                We saw the same thing when Garibaldi needed the ingredients for Baugna.
                I am just assuming that glass containers are hard to ship, otherwise nothing Garibaldi tried to import would be difficult. Does not apply to coffee.

                I recognize that the coffee situation was just created by JMS for dramatic purposes, but again I am playing the "canon game."
                I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

                Comment


                • We saw the same thing when Garibaldi needed the ingredients for Baugna.

                  I am just assuming that glass containers are hard to ship, otherwise nothing Garibaldi tried to import would be difficult. Does not apply to coffee.
                  The stuff Garibaldi needed doesn't have to come in Glass containers Now.
                  Why do you assume it would in the future?

                  Bagna Cauda

                  * 1-cup extra virgin olive oil
                  * 1/4 cup unsalted butter, melted
                  * 3 cloves garlic, peeled and chopped very fine, or, preferably crushed with a pestle
                  * 1, 2-oz can flat anchovy fillets packed in oil, drained, chopped very fine

                  Prepare the vegetables that you choose to serve by slicing them thinly or in strips.

                  Melt the butter in a deep earthenware bowl or saucepan over very low heat, making sure butter does not bubble - just long enough to get butter hot.

                  As soon as the butter is melted add the olive oil and let it heat through.

                  Add the garlic and sautÚ for an instant or two, (if crushed will cook faster than chopped) Do not let the garlic color at all. Remove.

                  Add the anchovies, stirring and mashing them with a wooden spoon.

                  Simmer for 3 or 4 minutes over very low heat, stirring continuously.

                  Sauce is ready when smooth in texture.

                  Keep the sauce warm over a spirit flame or canned heat burner.

                  Comment


                  • We have prime rib and baugna cauda every New Year's. Good stuff, even if you despise anchovies.
                    Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

                    Comment


                    • sounds very nice

                      ( wipes away drool )
                      Duracell Bunny is arrested and charged with BATTERY!!

                      Comment


                      • In many histoiries, the authors tend to take certain, well-known things for granted when they write. In the case of coffee beans, the unfortunate discovery of Ricardo Valdez (decendent of Juan) is rarely noted. Shortly after the Centauri sold gate technology to Earth, Mr. Valdez decided to apply his great wealth to travelling amoung the stars. He took with him a great store of coffee beans, being highly addicted to the beverage at the foundation of his families fortune. He also brought with him all the equipment necessary to roast the beans, money being no object. After the first jump, however, he made a most unwelcome discovery. Hyperspace adversely affects the beans. The resulting brew was so revolting, it bore no resemblence to any coffe brewed on Earth. Mr. Valdez spent much of his travellings trying to perfect transportation of the beans through hyperspace, but never did succeed. He did find that the plants can be transported with no harm, but given the limited places where those plants can be grown and harvested, this was of limited application.

                        "That was the law, as set down by Valen. Three castes: worker, religious, warrior."

                        Comment


                        • IIRC the stated reason for no real coffee on B5 was shipping weight, only the freeze-dried instant coffee was readily available. An additional issue could have been the amount of waste that used coffee grounds would produce.
                          Similarly there were no fresh eggs, but Marcus managed to get real eggs and bacon for Ivanova.
                          So it's likely that real coffee could be smuggled, or imported at a very high price.
                          But to keep with the canon I'd go with the idea of a genegineered (or specially bred) coffee plant, made to grow fast and be of small size.
                          This would mean that Ivanova took coffee roasting lessons at one time on her life, and somehow got hold of a compact roaster.

                          But this speculation on the coffee grounds waste made me wonder of something else:

                          How did B5 dispose of trash?
                          Just send it to burn on the atmosphere of Epsilon 3? I don't remember this issue being adressed in the series.
                          Such... is the respect paid to science that the most absurd opinions may become current, provided they are expressed in language, the sound of which recalls some well-known scientific phrase
                          James Clerk Maxwell (1831-79)

                          Comment


                          • I imagine that B5 got rid of most trash by launching it into the local sub. No worries that way about something not burning up entirely. They certainly sent the bodies off into the sun after the battle in Severed Dreams.

                            Of course, they probably also took great care to produce as little garbage as possible.

                            To that end, coffe grounds shouldn't be a problem since they compost well, and not everything on B5 appeared to be grown hydroponically. I'm sticking with the hyperspace mutation theory.

                            [Edit] I can see some people didn't follow my reference to launching it into the local sub, as in sub-light, intra-solar-system trash disposal barge that would transport the trash to the star around which the system was formed. Ya, Ya, that's what I was saying! Honest!
                            Last edited by WorkerCaste; 11-22-2004, 01:30 PM.
                            "That was the law, as set down by Valen. Three castes: worker, religious, warrior."

                            Comment


                            • I imagine that B5 got rid of most trash by launching it into the local sub.
                              I'd think the local sandwich union would have had something to say about that.

                              (sorry, couldn't resist, I'm a bit loopy lately)
                              Radhil Trebors
                              Persona Under Construction

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by bakana
                                The stuff Garibaldi needed doesn't have to come in Glass containers Now.
                                Why do you assume it would in the future?
                                Because that was the only way I could excuse the otherwise ham-handed humor of the episode. What other reason could there be?
                                I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station, when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone .. our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit .. that the part of me that is going .. will very much miss the part of you that is staying.

                                Comment

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