Open B5 questions

[Michael Malloy]

"BTW, most US states that I've driven in require the first driver who arrives at the scene of an accident it to Stop and Render Assistance even though they are NOT involved in the accident.

On the theory that the people who WERE in the accident might be too badly injured to help themselves."

Law or not, it is a moral thing to do. After all, if you were helpless in a similar situation, wouldn't you be happy if someone stopped to help you in some way? I would.

[bakana]

Manslaughter is the usual charge where the person who comitted the crime didn't Directly cause the death, but Could or Should have acted to Prevent it.

Nope, unless it was negligence on the part of the acused that caused the death, there is no "could or should have acted to prevent it" charge.

Well, since Lennier Could have opened the door and rescued Sheridan, it follows that, if anyone had died as a result of his NOT opening the door, he would have been responsible.

Killing someone by Not helping is still Killing.

And a few people Have gone to jail for refusing to help.

BTW, most US states that I've driven in require the first driver who arrives at the scene of an accident it to Stop and Render Assistance even though they are NOT involved in the accident.

On the theory that the people who WERE in the accident might be too badly injured to help themselves.

[grumbler]

Originally posted by bakana
As far as Lennier's crime, there ARE laws in the US which create a "Responsibility to Render Aid" in certain situations where Lives are clearly at stake.

I don't know how a failure to render aid is prosecuted, but the laws do exist.
Probably different in every state, too.

The Responsibility to render Aid" statutes only apply to those involved in an acident/incident. Bystanders (except doctors, nurses, and EMT types) are not required to render aid in any state that i was able to scan in a quick google search.

I'd guess the most likely charge would be Manslaughter by Negligence.
Or perhaps one I've heard on a few Lawyer shows: Depraved Indifference to Life.

Depraved indifference, and manslaughter, require that the accused must have taken action to cause the death - for instance, had Lenier caused the fuel spill without checking to see if there was anyone in its path, that would be manslaughter. Since he didn't cause the spill, he is legally free and clear.

Manslaughter is the usual charge where the person who comitted the crime didn't Directly cause the death, but Could or Should have acted to Prevent it.

Nope, unless it was negligence on the part of the acused that caused the death, there is no "could or should have acted to prevent it" charge.

Murder implies direct action, premeditated or not.

Yep. Murder requires both the action and the mindset. Lenier did nothing, and so is not guilty of even third degree murder (which is manslaughter).

All statements regarding law above should be taken to include US law only. Other jurisdictions (like Minbar) may have other legal concepts.

[vacantlook]

Though the images are smaller on the site I'm linking to below that the deadlink to the image that was in the post above, they're the same images.

Early B5 Designs including some interesting early descriptions of the five major alien governments.

Early B5 Character Bios including the picture you wanted to see of Kosh and his mate.

[elver]

The concept sketches seem to have been taken down. Anyone got a mirror or a copy? Would love to see them.

[WorkerCaste]

Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller
I was watching In the Shadow of Z'ha'dum the other day and and I noticed something I'd never noticed before. After Vir verbally bitchslaps Morden with his pike comment, Morden holds up the data crystal and his hand is in a near perfect flip off sign. Do you think it was like one of those things where you scratch your nose with your middle finger as a (not so) subtle way to give someone the bird?

Interesting thought, but I always thought that Vir's comment about some favors coming with too high a price hit a little close to home, and the crystal connects him to the price he's paying.

[Dr Maturin]

I was watching In the Shadow of Z'ha'dum the other day and and I noticed something I'd never noticed before. After Vir verbally bitchslaps Morden with his pike comment, Morden holds up the data crystal and his hand is in a near perfect flip off sign. Do you think it was like one of those things where you scratch your nose with your middle finger as a (not so) subtle way to give someone the bird?

[Shr'eshhhhhh]

Be nice to each other

Vorlons, Kosh with his mate
http://www.verdieck.com/b5/7.jpg

I wonder if that's the origin of the pairing of Kosh and Ulkesh in ITB and WWE. Ulkesh did take Kosh's death rather badly. What if they were, (ahem!)
Nudge. nudge wink, wink, say no more!

[Capt.Montoya]

Originally posted by chaostaenzer
`
Very nice idea.
Anyone here who dares writing a script on that issue?

Cool idea, but writing it... that unfortunately would be fan fiction, and the unwritten consensus here has been to avoid that.

[WorkerCaste]

Originally posted by chaostaenzer
Very nice idea.
Anyone here who dares writing a script on that issue?

[chaostaenzer]

This week on Law and Order: SMU (Special Minbari Unit) the unit is troubled by jurisdictional difficulties. The IA doesnÆt want the case because it doesnÆt involve governments and is an internal matter. Minbari law is vague, because Minbari donÆt harm Minbari, and harming other races must be war. LennierÆs life hangs in the balance as the unit tries to discover if it really was a crime and who has jurisdiction! The fugitive is in flight and time is running out!

`
Very nice idea.
Anyone here who dares writing a script on that issue?

[WorkerCaste]

This week on Law and Order: SMU (Special Minbari Unit) the unit is troubled by jurisdictional difficulties. The IA doesnÆt want the case because it doesnÆt involve governments and is an internal matter. Minbari law is vague, because Minbari donÆt harm Minbari, and harming other races must be war. LennierÆs life hangs in the balance as the unit tries to discover if it really was a crime and who has jurisdiction! The fugitive is in flight and time is running out!

[Capt.Montoya]

Originally posted by bakana
As far as Lennier's crime, there ARE laws in the US which create a "Responsibility to Render Aid" in certain situations where Lives are clearly at stake.

Mmhh, yeah... but what about the Interstellar Alliance laws on the issue?

Or more properly the Minbari laws, it was their vessel and their vassal.
The Minbari civil war case of the Warriors driving Religious Caste people into the freezing wilderness (the Minbari Trail of Tears?) would indicate to me that they might not have such a law... because they never thought they would need it. Lennier's negligent act may not have been against Minbari Law, but it was against the supposed Minbari nature.

In any event... Lennier ends up guilt ridden and separated forever from the object of his unrequitted love, likely to die in an attempt to redeem himself in the eyes of Delenn. Not a legal punishment, but there's some justice in that.

[bakana]

As far as Lennier's crime, there ARE laws in the US which create a "Responsibility to Render Aid" in certain situations where Lives are clearly at stake.

I don't know how a failure to render aid is prosecuted, but the laws do exist.
Probably different in every state, too.

I'd guess the most likely charge would be Manslaughter by Negligence.
Or perhaps one I've heard on a few Lawyer shows: Depraved Indifference to Life.

Manslaughter is the usual charge where the person who comitted the crime didn't Directly cause the death, but Could or Should have acted to Prevent it.

Murder implies direct action, premeditated or not.

Firing a Gun in a fit of Anger would be a candidate for 2nd degree Murder.

Driving Drunk, OTOH, gets Manslaughter because the Death, while arguably Forseeable, is usually not Deliberate.

[Capt.Montoya]

The thing is that I seriously doubt Lennier had ever thought of killing Sheridan. It would be very "anti-Minbari" or something like that.

He could have been accused of negligence, but not of premeditated murder.
The way I see it Sheridan decided to keep the situation under wraps to avoid a scandal, that would hurt the reputation of Delenn and Sheridan, not only of Lennier. A scandal of that magnitude while the ISA is just getting established in Minbar, after the Centauri conflict, and the Telepath scandal, could have been very inconvenient.
I don't think we can say Sheridan was lenient... he actually never got a chance to punish Lennier. Lennier went back to help after leaving Sheridan to die (IIRC Sheridan notices that) but immediately after he ran away.

Originally posted by Z'ha'dumDweller
Here is an obscure question:

I have been watching the civil war arc these past few weeks. In the episode where Garibaldi draws the face in the mirror, does the mouth curve down on one end because of that face he sometimes makes? I'd seen this episode a half-dozen times before, but this is the first time it has occured to me.

Another question:

Number One says she has thirty witnesses who saw Garibaldi dupe Sheridan...if about fifteen guys at the most jumped him, then where were the thirty witnesses? That wasn't a huge pub they were in. I could speculate on the thirty witnesses, but does anyone else have any other thoughts?

The :-| face that Garibaldi put was a way to show that something was wrong within, IMO. The trapped real Garibaldi showing through the Psi-Corps modified personality.

Number One's mention of thirty witnesses could have been a spur of the moment number, I think everyone tends to do that. She could have said 20, maybe she just had 10, maybe she had 28 or 32, but no matter what she said 30 to make a point: "we have no doubt that Garibaldi betrayed the cause, and we have witnesses."