Al Sarrantonio; Neal Barrett Jr. Book #5 what's the deal?

[raw_bean]

It always seemed to me, slightly redundant though it may have been, that the book should have novelised War Without End (or at least some of it, from Sinclair's perspective) to finish off. You could have some additional, internal insight into Sinclair's decision to go back and become Valen, hoping to find Catherine. It's not like it even makes sense to read it and then immediately watch the episodes, since the framing device with Marcus is set later in the series. And then the final epilogue-like payoff only really comes with In Valen's Name (and on a side note, TDiaCoS itself makes more sense if you read the first issues of the B5 comic just before it). I love the whole story of Sinclair after season 1, but the fact that it's split between comic, novel, episode and then comic again is a little unfortunate.

[JoeD80]

I love the whole story of Sinclair after season 1, but the fact that it's split between comic, novel, episode and then comic again is a little unfortunate.

The story in the novel was originally going to be in the comic before jms ran into the whole creative control issue where DC said if jms wrote the comic directly he didn't have final say over it. Issue #12 - 15 would have been "The Book of the War" introducing Marcus and the story of his brother and going into his experiences with the Rangers before he came to Babylon 5.

[KoshN]

The Psi Corps books were well-written *books* as well as tying in to the story, at least IMO. I enjoyed them the most of all the B5 books.

I did get that same feeling that To Dream in the City of Sorrows just kind of stopped. I was reading along, enjoying it immensely, and then suddenly there were no more chapters left to read and I wondered where the end of the story got to. Still worth reading though I think.

Hmm, I'd rate them, from best to worst (where stuff together on one line, indicates a tie):

The Technomage trilogy and The Centauri trilogy
Dell #7 "The Shadow Within"
The Psi Corps Trilogy
Dell #9 "To Dream in the City of Sorrows"
"In the Beginning" novelization
"Thirdspace" novelization
...and then in the basement...
"A Call to Arms" novelization
Dell 1, 2, 3, 6, & 8.
...and then in the Mariana Trench...
Dell 4 & 5

[Ulkosh]

I'd say that by far the worst of the novels is Book 5, if i was Neal Barratt and had not written it i'd definitely want my name off that one

Overall I'd say on a 5 star rating

- Voices * Its poor, very poor
- Accusations ** Its a passable light read
- Blood Oath ** again passable but not really Babylon 5
- Clark's Law * Almost OK at first, but some serious missteps and then a collapse into a horrible mess
-Touch of Your Shadow, the Whisper of your Gas (or something like that) No stars, its execrable, the characters are not in character, the Fermi's Angels a total embarassment, the story apalling
- Betrayals ** Poor
- Shadow Within ***** Excellent, exciting, thought provoking
- Personal Agendas ** Poor but mildly humorous
- To Dream in the City of Sorrows - ****/***** Covers the Sinclair Story very well, alright its not great literature but by TV tie-in standards its excellent

Psi Corps Trilogy ** - Its poor, has some mildly interesting background but it ultimately goes nowhere and is written in an extremely pretentious style
Book 1 - is about some people we neither know nor care about.
Book 2 - is endlessly repetetive
Book 3 - seems to try to make us sympathetic to a character for whom i have no sympathy and fails therein and carries a total anti-climax for an ending

Technomage Trilogy **** - Almost great as theres a LOT of info in there, the characterisation is great, character development excellent - its just a bit of a slow hard grind getting there, and in particular the first 200 or so pages are difficult to get through.

Centauri Trilogy *****
Lots of interesting ground covered and in a fast and enjoyable manner


If i had to recommend i'd only recommend the Centauri Trilogy and Books 7 & 9, with the Technomage trilogy if you can handle the slog - i know people who couldn't and gave up on it in the past.

[KoshN]

I'd say that by far the worst of the novels is Book 5, if i was Neal Barratt and had not written it i'd definitely want my name off that one

Overall I'd say on a 5 star rating

- Voices * Its poor, very poor

Yes, and not good B5, but it's not too objectionable. It's not offensively bad, like books 4 & 5 are.

- Accusations ** Its a passable light read
- Blood Oath ** again passable but not really Babylon 5

I can go along with that.

- Clark's Law * Almost OK at first, but some serious missteps and then a collapse into a horrible mess

All I remember is the horrible mess part.

-Touch of Your Shadow, the Whisper of your Gas

ROFL! Now, I've got to clean the tea off of both the keyboard and the screen. Maybe the interdimensional space worm had gas?

(or something like that) No stars, its execrable, the characters are not in character, the Fermi's Angels a total embarassment, the story apalling

Agreed.

- Betrayals ** Poor

I thought it was passable, like books 2 & 3.

- Shadow Within ***** Excellent, exciting, thought provoking

Agreed, except for the frequent bouncing back and forth between the two main threads.

- Personal Agendas ** Poor but mildly humorous

Passable and mildly humorous.

- To Dream in the City of Sorrows - ****/***** Covers the Sinclair Story very well, alright its not great literature but by TV tie-in standards its excellent

Good content, but a tedious, slow hard grind getting there. How many times did they have to discuss getting the bed at the right angle or temshwee (sp?) eggs?

Psi Corps Trilogy ** - Its poor, has some mildly interesting background but it ultimately goes nowhere and is written in an extremely pretentious style.

Laying all that background is tough. Again, I'd say it was a tedious, slow hard grind getting there. All those aliases. Keeping the family trees straight.

Book 1 - is about some people we neither know nor care about.

Getting through this book, and keeping everybody straight (Who's who.), was tough.

Book 2 - is endlessly repetetive

Bester growing up in the Corps.

Book 3 - seems to try to make us sympathetic to a character for whom i have no sympathy and fails therein and carries a total anti-climax for an ending

In books 2 & 3, you do get some sense of the tragedy of Bester, and he was stubborn to the last.

Technomage Trilogy **** - Almost great as theres a LOT of info in there, the characterisation is great, character development excellent - its just a bit of a slow hard grind getting there, and in particular the first 200 or so pages are difficult to get through.

The farm stuff on Soom was a slow hard grind (the swug, the farmers, etc.), but the stuff with Fa paid off with her encounter with Razeel, the ring, and how it affected Galen. I thought Cavelos painted a pretty good picture of life on Soom. After that, it took off. I had to try to slow down so that I wouldn't just gobble the books up, because after that, I knew that there was nothing left.

Centauri Trilogy *****
Lots of interesting ground covered and in a fast and enjoyable manner

...and much shorter than the Technomage trilogy.

If i had to recommend i'd only recommend the Centauri Trilogy and Books 7 & 9, with the Technomage trilogy if you can handle the slog - i know people who couldn't and gave up on it in the past.

Come on, Book #9 and Psi Corps Book #1 are much more of a slog than Technomage Book #1. Hell, I reread the Technomage trilogy just to enjoy it again. Centauri trilogy is next, after I finish The Dresden Files novels (Currently on 8 of 11.).

[JoeD80]

Psi Corps Trilogy ** - Its poor, has some mildly interesting background but it ultimately goes nowhere and is written in an extremely pretentious style
Book 1 - is about some people we neither know nor care about.
Book 2 - is endlessly repetetive
Book 3 - seems to try to make us sympathetic to a character for whom i have no sympathy and fails therein and carries a total anti-climax for an ending

On Book 1 I found myself engaged from the first page, and I certainly cared about the characters. I loved how we jumped from time to time and saw the evolution of the Psi Corps and the Underground, and

(spoiler):

the touch of the Vorlon on Venus was perfect.

I must admit I don't follow about book 2 being repetitive. It covers 60 years of Bester's life in many different situations throughout his life (school, Byron & Bester working together, etc.). What parts are repeating?

I don't think Book 3 tries to make us sympathetic with the character -- sure it lulls you into a sense of security for a bit thinking that Bester is settling down and possibly turning away from evil, but then *bam* Bester is a horrible horrible person when

(spoiler):

he doesn't hesitate to destroy the memories from his lover's mind.

I couldn't put this book down when Garibaldi was finally confronting Bester! Beautiful climax to the Garibaldi/Bester story IMO.

Getting through this book, and keeping everybody straight (Who's who.), was tough.

There aren't that many characters to follow in the first book IIRC (six or seven?), and when the time periods change, the book does a pretty good job of connecting the previous characters to the current characters.

[Jan]

I agree with JoeD80 on this one. The Psi Corps trilogy was much more to my taste than the Techno-Mage trilogy was. For one thing, I didn't think that the Galen in the books was the same Mage we saw on Crusade while for me it was fascinating reading about Bester becoming the person we saw on B5.

Jan

[Spoo Junky]

I agree with JoeD80 on this one. The Psi Corps trilogy was much more to my taste than the Techno-Mage trilogy was. For one thing, I didn't think that the Galen in the books was the same Mage we saw on Crusade while for me it was fascinating reading about Bester becoming the person we saw on B5.

Jan

On the other hand, I preferred the Techno-Mage books over the Psi-Corps books. I guess I liked the T-M books because they had a darker atmosphere in my mind and I enjoy reading them, and have re-read them several times.

I still liked the P-C books a lot though. I agree that they gave a good insight into Bester's character.

Oh, and the Centauri trilogy I only re-read once because I get too sad by the ending

[KoshN]

There aren't that many characters to follow in the first book IIRC (six or seven?), and when the time periods change, the book does a pretty good job of connecting the previous characters to the current characters.

I'm talking about keeping track of all of the characters, their aliases and their relations/associations to one another. It's a good idea to write it all down as you go, and draw up a family tree, one for Bester's side and one for Lyta's side.

[KoshN]

I agree with JoeD80 on this one. The Psi Corps trilogy was much more to my taste than the Techno-Mage trilogy was. For one thing, I didn't think that the Galen in the books was the same Mage we saw on Crusade...

Well, the Technomage trilogy covered November 2258 through sometime in 2261. When we next saw Galen it was in December 2266 (A Call to Arms), and that was when we saw him in the Centauri trilogy as well. Something could have happened to him between 2261 and December 2266. Granted, he looked more adept and powerful, and more at ease at the end of the Technomage trilogy in 2261 than he did in Crusade (and I've said that a few times before.), but in the Crusade episodes we saw, we're seeing what Galen is willing to let the other characters in Crusade see. Maybe Jeanne Cavelos did make him too powerful in the books, but maybe in Crusade, Galen isn't showing his full capabilities.

One thing that irks me though, is when he used his staff to destroy the other technomage's underground AI/Nanovirus machine in The Memory of War. Why risk losing the staff which Elric gave him (a treasured keepsake, as well as a useful tool.). I know he doesn't necessarily need it by the end of the Technomage trilogy; his union with the tech has made it unnecesary. He simply could have destroyed the machine with his Spell of Destruction, with just a thought. The thing is, both Gideon and Dureena were there to see what he did, and maybe he didn't want them to see that he had that kind of power.

...while for me it was fascinating reading about Bester becoming the person we saw on B5.

I somewhat agree with that, especially regarding the many deathbed scans he did.

[Dr Maturin]

Ironically, I liked the first Psi Corps book the most out of the trilogy. The Galen books were amazing and did a good job in fleshing out the B5 universe (a la season 4 of B5). And the Centauri trilogy...well, if you don't like it then you should be burned at the stake.

The Dresden Files

I recently picked up the first one because I like the premise and because Vyce has been all but shilling for them for some time now.

[KoshN]

OT - re. "The Dresden Files"

I recently picked up the first one because I like the premise and because Vyce has been all but shilling for them for some time now.

So, you're going to be reading The Dresden Files "Storm Front" ? Just a word of warning, if you're ever going to watch the TV series (lasted 13 episodes on The Sci-Fi Channel), watch it BEFORE you start reading the novels. After you read the novels, you probably won't like the TV series much, just because of how many things they changed between the novels and the TV series. Some of the changes are little, some are BIG and some are just plain stupid. "Storm Front" is the only episode that matches up with a novel, and there are lots of differences between the two.

The episode "Bad Blood" is good when viewed on its own, and Joanne Kelly (Bianca) is certainly easy on the eyes, and is very good in her part, but the Harry/Bianca relationship in the episode is almost completely contradictory of the Harry/Bianca relationship in the novels.

IMHO, They really screwed up by not making the TV series faithful to the novels.
However, Paul Blackthorne is great as Harry Dresden.
Ditto for:
Terrence Mann ... Bob
Conrad Coates ... Morgan
Joanne Kelly ... Bianca
Matt Gordon ... Waldo Butters


The following are good (good acting), but miscast (don't match the books):
Valerie Cruz ... Lt. Connie Murphy
Rebecca McFarland ... Susan Rodriguez


The following are recurring, but aren't in the books (at least up to where I am in Book #8 of 11.):
Raoul Bhaneja ... Detective Sid Kirmani
Elizabeth Thai ... Ancient Mai
Jane McLean ... Ancient Mai

The following are in "Storm Front" the TV episode, but many of them don't match up with the characters in the book. It's been awhile since I read "Storm Front" and I can't remember the specifics of how they mangled the characters to make the episode, but they really made a mess of these characters, combining some, deleting some, creating some, etc.

Sherry Miller ... Monica Cutler
Jonathan Whittaker ... Victor Cutler
Jennifer Kydd ... Grace Cutler
Christine Tizzard ... Jennifer Randall
Greg Bryk ... Tommy Tomm
Shannon Boodram ... Linda Atwater

[Dr Maturin]

Valerie Cruz ... Lt. Connie Murphy
Rebecca McFarland ... Susan Rodriguez

I legitimately laughed at the above quote. "Draw a line from the surname on the left to the one that best matches on the right."

I don't mind changes on show or movies as long as the spirit of the source material is maintained. With that being said, messing with characters is wrong. Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World (the title of which doesn't make sense; Jack is a post captain) changed a few major things, combined stuff from several of the novels, but they didn't change the characterizations. Those are what are important.

Not to derail the thread, but I have seen people calling for the Centauri trilogy to be made into films. I don't know, it's so epic that film would never do it justice.

[Ranger 6 and 7/8]

I legitimately laughed at the above quote. "Draw a line from the surname on the left to the one that best matches on the right."

I don't mind changes on show or movies as long as the spirit of the source material is maintained. With that being said, messing with characters is wrong. Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World (the title of which doesn't make sense; Jack is a post captain) changed a few major things, combined stuff from several of the novels, but they didn't change the characterizations. Those are what are important.

Not to derail the thread, but I have seen people calling for the Centauri trilogy to be made into films. I don't know, it's so epic that film would never do it justice.

I agree Doc. the Centauri trilogy, while epic on its own, could not make the jump B5 needs for the Big Screen..to much history to explain to the public. A B5 Big screen would need to be something new that the public could grasp, but set in the B5 universe so we veterans could fill in the gaps.

[Ulkosh]

Sorry, i didn't really elaborate on what my problems with the PsiCorp trilogy were.

Book1 - it didn't grab me, but the story was fairly interesting so i can see how it might grab you if you can get interested in the charatcers

Book2 - The Childhood section was mildly diverting after that it merely seemed to be a series of Bester pursues someone, Bester catches someone, over and over again.

Book3 - I simply didn't feel any sympathy and the denoument really really let it down, yes i suspect it is more realistic, but such a weak ending for such a repulsive character, at least in a literary sense is massively disappointing.

In addition Keyes' writing really annoyed me with its pretension, i seem to remember a passage about a fire along the lines of (its close but i don;t remember the passage exactly):

'"the sparks, like tiny nebulae, floated towards their celestial cousins"

and there were many other occasions like that which completely broke me out of the flow. Not good.


Now to be fair, the TM trilogy is also EXTREMELY repetitive in parts, if Galen had 'brought down the fire' on himself one more time i was getting ready to scream.