How Much Power Does The Great Maker Have?

[Joe Nazzaro]

You'll have to forgive me if some of my info/memories are sketchy, because it's been some years since those early books, but the David Bassom and Jane Killick books were done for the British publisher Boxtree. As far as I know, they were done as a 'buy-out' which means the writer gets a one-time fee and no royalties, even if the books eventually get sold in a larger territory such as the US, which these books did. I never talked to David about this, but I seem to recall Jane telling me that her fee was pretty modest; so much so in fact, that she bascially had to do most of her interviews over the phone, as opposed to visiting the B5 set. I think she also came to at least one of the Blackpool conventions because so many B5 people were essentially under one roof and thus was able to grab them when they were available in the UK.

Of course if Boxtree had the license for non-fiction B5 tie-in books at the time, it would have meant that no one else could do them. If they were poorly produced, it was because they were done on a shoe string and without much of a budget. Nothing against either David or Jane, but if they weren't getting much money and had a tight deadline, you can't really expect too much under the circumstances.

And for those talking about large format books, such as tech manuals or 'art of' books, my personal feeling is that ship has sailed. I don't see any publisher putting a big chunk of money into a project based on a series that is no longer on the air. Just my opinion, but I'd like to think it's an educated one.

[Triple F]

Your right, the bird has definitely flown. But then again thereÆs the like of CafÚ press or some internet related releases. But as I understand it, the red tape and money asked for by Warner is still pretty prohibitive.


As for the security manual , fair point û I forgot about that. Was there not some CD based thing as well.

Sorry if IÆm sounding argumentative on these kind of subjects, the opinions are based on what IÆve read, heard and been told. Even at itÆs height the popularity (viewing figures) couldnÆt touch the likes of Trek or the X-Files so having a smaller range of merchandise is almost inevitable.

Does anyone know who was involved with the Babylon 5 site that was kicking around for a short period a while back. Not the Warner one but the site that Joe and a few others were involved with briefly.

[Jan]

I liked the Killick books a lot. Can't say as I have much of a memory about the 'Creating Babylon 5' book though I've got it - mainly because what I'm interested in is the story, though I appreciate the behind-the-scenes efforts that make the story real.

Thanks, Joe.

Jan

[Joe Nazzaro]

And I think the Creating B5 book, if memory serves, just covered the first two seasons. Hardly a definitive work if they didn't update it. I don't remember Boxtree being a high-class outfit. They were doing a Blake's 7 book at the same time that my wife and I were writing one for Virgin Books, and I can't tell you how many used to come up to us at cons to say when they opened the Boxtree B7 book, all the pages fell out!

[Clark Kent]

And I think the Creating B5 book, if memory serves, just covered the first two seasons.

It also covers part of the third season, at least up to "Severed Dreams." In the interview with Ann Bruice there are sketches of the black uniforms as well as a discussion to their creation.

[Jonas]

Personally, I'm fairly happy that there isn't more merchandising stuff. As Sheridan says, this station is about something! I also love the work of William Blake, but that doesn't mean I want draw-it-yourself manuals for the Elder of Days, or role-playing games based on the Songs of Experience. Just because Trek makes a shitload of money selling fairly nonsensical tech manuals (and yes, I have some) doesn't mean every other sci-fi show has to do it.

You may like the ships or the guns or the uniforms in B5, but that's not what B5 is about. It's a story, not a franchise. And as for JMS attempting to keep B5-related products to some kind of standards, I can't see what's wrong with that. Even if someone would like to have them. I'm glad that WB have decided to listen to Joe, even though that would probably change if the show made more money.

[Triple F]

You may like the ships or the guns or the uniforms in B5, but that's not what B5 is about.

Your correct of course. ItÆs about selling soap powder. As for the ships, guns and uniforms, etc.

Television is a visual medium, these are visual elements and *without* them the story canÆt be told û you could even argue that without them there isnÆt a story.

The jingle that æitÆs the story thatÆs importantÆ is fine and good. Like everyone here I *LOVED* (canÆt emphasise that enough) the story. The whole story and nothing but the story. û itÆs a classic tale afterall.

And, like it or not, that has to include the ships, guns, and uniforms. What is one of the big complaints about The Lost Tales? Money, lack of effects, lack of extras, lack of scenery, etc. Even joe says that you need a budget in order to visualise the written word.

I mean seriously. The shows friggin icon for a number of reasons. ItÆs been honoured with awards from both discerning fans and professional peers. DonÆt sell the show short.


As for RPG players and the like. I think thatÆs why itÆs called a Babylon 5 fan community. In a jms fan community . . . . . . . . . . . .. no, I donÆt want to even think about visualising what would be involved with that. J

[Garibaldi's Hair]

Your right, the bird has definitely flown. But then again there’s the like of Café press or some internet related releases. But as I understand it, the red tape and money asked for by Warner is still pretty prohibitive.

That's precisely because it is still WB's property and they have the right to licence it on whatever terms they wish. The "problem" with Cafepress is that most of the money charged for any item (including books) includes a big chunk going straight to them ... which is fair enough since they may have to print one or two or ten thousand.

My book of songs (100 pages, spiral-bound) is charged out at $10, $8.99 of which goes to Cafepress and $1.01 to me. I imagine the script books, perfect bound and much longer have a lot more per copy going straight to Cafepress, and any other options such as an art book etc. would involve pretty low, per copy income ... not nearly enough to cover the cost of the licence. Which, of course, the scripts team don't have to pay for since Joe and the other writers own the scripts and can do what they like with them without needing a licence.

As for the security manual , fair point – I forgot about that. Was there not some CD based thing as well.

Yes there was ... a Guide to Babylon 5, I believe it was. Saw it in a few shops, always meant to get a copy but never did. There were also two limited edition desktop enhancement CDs released (wallpapers, sound and video clips, screensavers etc.), one of which I still own, but haven't installed recently since they were designed for Win95 and standard VGA screens and look a bit silly now even at 1280x1024. Sound clips are great though.

[Triple F]

CafÚ Press take that sort of bite out your arse . . . . . ThatÆs intersting.

Do they do a lot of marketing for you by advetising your book at suitable sites, cons, or whatever - who covers postage? The reason why IÆm asking is I own a reasonable sized print business. While mark ups in the print industry are high, if all their doing is printing and binding it then itÆs maybe a little too high. Are they a pretty standard setup for on-line (IÆm guessing small independent) publishers as far as you know. If so I might spend some time looking into this, if it's a print on demand setup then something closer to 40% to you should be a bit fairer while everyone still makes some money.

[Jan]

The information on the base costs per item available at CafePress are on their website. In the case of books, you choose your trim size and from there you can find out the cost for each type of binding and the per page price. Postage to send the books to the purchaser is paid by the purchaser. The one selling the books are the ones setting the price which is the base that goes to CP plus whatever they want coming to them. Naturally it's in their best interests to be reasonable if they want to sell more books.

Jan

[JoeD80]

So in other words he does have a very real influence on what, or more relevantly does *not*, appears as B5 merchandise . . . . . . . I thought that was my point.

My point was WB can drop Joe out of the loop if they want without any legal problem. It's WB's call. (A little late replying because I see several people have now weighed in on this.)

Sorry if I’m sounding argumentative on these kind of subjects, the opinions are based on what I’ve read, heard and been told.

This may bother some people, but not me at all. I get along with argumentative people more, because I like a good discussion.

[Garibaldi's Hair]

CafÚ Press take that sort of bite out your arse . . . . . ThatÆs intersting.

Do they do a lot of marketing for you by advetising your book at suitable sites, cons, or whatever - who covers postage? The reason why IÆm asking is I own a reasonable sized print business. While mark ups in the print industry are high, if all their doing is printing and binding it then itÆs maybe a little too high.

Customer covers postage, Cafepres literally do nothing but provide the products and a website from which to purchase them.

And I should have been clearer. I only take $1.01 because I choose to. The $8.99 that Cafepress get is set in stone - determined by the number of pages and type of binding - and I get to choose my own markup. I could, for example choose to price the book at $16.99 and take $8 on each one, but I didn't.

Are they a pretty standard setup for on-line (IÆm guessing small independent) publishers as far as you know. If so I might spend some time looking into this, if it's a print on demand setup then something closer to 40% to you should be a bit fairer while everyone still makes some money.

They are basically print on demand for everything they do, and not a publisher at all.

[Triple F]

Oh it's *fixed* at 8.99. Got you.

[Garibaldi's Hair]

Oh it's *fixed* at 8.99. Got you.

Yup ... depending on the number of pages. You start at $4 base price, then a small amount for each page in your book. Mine is 8.99 because of the number of pages. More pages, higher price to CP, fewer pages, lower price to CP.