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Legend of the Rangers Thread...2009 edition

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  • Ubik
    replied
    Originally posted by Marsden View Post
    I salute your adventurousness willing to watch this again, I will not unless I'm ever trapped on a satellite with two small wisecracking robots.
    Oh dear god, it would make a superb MST3K episode.

    Leave a comment:


  • Marsden
    replied
    Originally posted by Jan View Post
    Get over it or fast forward. You, too, Phaze. There - all fixed. Honestly, this is one that I just don't understand people getting so completely hung up over. It's like Byron's hair. For some unknown reason huge numbers of fans seemed to think that just because the teep colony was poor they couldn't afford soap and water and basic grooming supplies. It has *nothing*, repeat *Nothing* to do with the quality of the story. Deal.

    Jan
    Or even better, take a hammer and break the disc into little pieces and then you can make a mosaic out of the pieces, then it would be actually presentable.

    I somehow missed all of the hullabaloo about this premiering on scifi, then years later I saw the disc for sale. It said "Babylon 5" I thought, I'll get it for that reason. I feel like my money was swindled from me by labeling something with a known name that ain't it. This is the Joanie Loves Chachi of B5. No it's worse than that.

    I salute your adventurousness willing to watch this again, I will not unless I'm ever trapped on a satellite with two small wisecracking robots.

    Leave a comment:


  • Delenn_of_Mir
    replied
    @Phazedout Was that a 5 out of 10 stars? Would you consider the B5 series
    a 10?

    I dont remember if I've ever graded it, but I do remember how much G'Kar made me laugh! Today, I would prolly rate it a 7 out of 10, for G'Kar and for bringing me back to B5 verse once again.

    I rate B5 the series a 12 out of 10.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ubik
    replied
    Originally posted by phazedout View Post
    arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
    I tried to post i really did, tried creaating a new thread, tried logging out, it STILL cuts it off.
    'sigh, for those who are on faceborg, my review is there
    Quick tip for the 'posts cutting off' thing. If your post gets eaten by the forum, make a mental note of where it cuts off, press the back button on your browser, which will take you back to the reply/edit window, copy your original post. Go to edit the 'cut off version'. Paste in the version you have on the clipboard, now go find where it cut off, this is likely because of a comma, quotation mark, or other such symbol. Delete this and replace it, re-post... It should now work.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jan
    replied
    Phaze, I think the issue was triggered by a possibly Finnish character you used. Yeah, don't ask me why, but some of us have noticed that symbols and things trigger it. Trying something....

    tried t post this repeatedly on jmsnews.com, it kept cutting it off, regarding b5:legend if the rangers movie

    So I watched it yesterday, I even gave Jan a blow by blow account of the first 40 minutes or so before I had to pause to make dinner (Phaze hungry, hungry phaze not like tv).

    It was ... ok.

    Overall impression based upon approx. five years of critiquing stargate for my podcast, I [ ] give this a five, a solid five mind you but still a five. The zero g punchy kicky combat scene, while not terrible is stil la little cringe worthy. The effects are, what they were, tv movie level rather than blockbuster level and also a product o fthe time the movie was made.

    I acknowledge, as others earlier in the thread have, that it was a pilot, any pilot is going to have rough edges, introducing the crew, having a well loved character form the show it spun off to ease in the transtion and so on.

    Good points: G'kar, obviously, light and fun loving with the wonderfully ironic way of speaking and that little twist at the end of every statement which makes you go umm. what?
    The crew held together fairly well, but again, due to a lack of time we only got to barely meet some of the characters. Also David but I did not see any characters with the initials JS, tut tut.

    The hand were rather B movie "ohh we are hooded and cloaked, you nkow not the pwoer of us.
    Also a lift form trek? really? today is a good day to die?.

    Ahh tiernan, so noble, so driven, so honourable, so brain dead stupid!

    G'kar wonderfully put it in his speech before the grey council (one of my favourite bits of the whole thing) "we live for the one, we die for the one, strange how you always seem to focus on the last part of that statement".

    So, on conclusion, ok, not great but not as bad as I had been given to tink.

    Yes the zero g fight sequences are what they are, an attempt at trying something new, I a sure had we gone to series with it, the whole idea would have been droppedin favour of an eye piece and some butotn pushing.

    I thnk it attracted a lot of criticism for reasons cited aboe, B5 was brilliant and we cna even see flashes and aspects of that brilliance in the writing, this felt like an average episode of a good show, soem stand out portions (hell even TKO and Infciton had those) but just not good enough.
    I hope I have made sense feel free to pick my anaylisis apart.
    Phaze
    on the "Sunny outside, I meay venture in to it in order to ingress and further avoid work on my thesis" ID
    Let's see if that works.

    Jan

    Leave a comment:


  • phazedout
    replied
    arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
    I tried to post i really did, tried creaating a new thread, tried logging out, it STILL cuts it off.
    'sigh, for those who are on faceborg, my review is there
    Last edited by phazedout; 09-07-2014, 04:37 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • phazedout
    replied
    So I watched it yesterday, I even gave Jan a blow by blow account of the first 40 minutes or so before I had to pause to make dinner (Phaze hungry, hungry phaze not like tv).

    It was ... ok.

    Overall impression based upon approx. five years of critiquing stargate for my podcast, I

    Leave a comment:


  • phazedout
    replied
    So I watched it yesterday, I even gave Jan a blow by blow account of the first 40 minutes or so before I had to pause to make dinner (Phaze hungry, hungry phaze not like tv).

    It was ... ok.

    Overall impression based upon approx. five years of critiquing stargate for my podcast, I

    Leave a comment:


  • phazedout
    replied
    So I watched it yesterday, I even gave Jan a blow by blow account of the first 40 minutes or so before I had to pause to make dinner (Phaze hungry, hungry phaze not like tv).

    It was ... ok.

    Overall impression based upon approx. five years of critiquing stargate for my podcast, I
    Last edited by phazedout; 09-07-2014, 03:45 AM. Reason: keeps cutting post off

    Leave a comment:


  • Jan
    replied
    Originally posted by JoeD80 View Post
    I liked the gun pod scene.
    I thought it was kinda overblown but I think it would have been *much* harder to convey the quiet tension of the initial description where targeting would have simply been by eye.

    Jan

    Leave a comment:


  • JoeD80
    replied
    I liked the gun pod scene.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ubik
    replied
    Cheers Jan. All very interesting and relevant (as always).

    I still struggle to buy into the newly acquired 'never retreat' creedos, but if the Ranger heirarcy is corrupt and broken, then maaaybe. But, i'm still uncomfortable with that leap of logic. I wish more had been made of it initially, some reason to explain why they would instigate such an extreme policy. It would make more sense in a time of war, somewhat like the Japanses using Kamikaze pilots.

    I understand that The Hand are bluffing and would have been revealed to be all smoke and mirrors. However, I would have loved to seen a different kind of threat, even if this one would have turned out to be something else.

    The internal strife within the Minbari government and the Rangers sounds cool, perhaps in league with The Hand (maybe a breakaway part of the Warrior Cast!?!).

    Rangers would have likely been a better show than this pilot film suggests. I still don't like the film, and feel many things could have been handled better. As with most things JMS, I'd have given the series a shot.
    Last edited by Ubik; 09-03-2014, 04:48 AM.

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  • Jan
    replied
    One part from the TV Movies script book that's relevant to the conversation:

    Q: A common complaint about The Legend of the Rangers is that the Rangers were too willing to die rather than finding a less lethal way of defeating their opponents. In retrospect, is this a plot element that you would have changed or was it essential to the story?

    JMS: I kind of wanted them young and impetuous and idealistic, the “die with
    honor” solution being their first resort rather than what it should be, their last
    resort. They would’ve learned to temper that in time, especially after one of them
    died defending the rest in ways that could have been avoided.
    Also, when asked about the arc if it had gone to series:

    JMS: I wanted to put them in an arc where the beliefs instilled in them would be tested both from without and from within, as they found that some of those at the very top were not hewing to the same high standards. They would get caught up in Minbari politics and a still simmering division leftover from the B5 storyline that would force them to choose between convenience and spying on their own organization to root out some serious infiltration.
    Jan

    Leave a comment:


  • Ubik
    replied
    Originally posted by Looney View Post
    I haven't watched it since around the time it was originally released, but I do recall much of what is being said. I will be watching it again in the near future and I'll try to remember to report back then. I mean it has been more than ten years; I'm practically a different person so there is no telling what I'll think.
    Give it a go, I'd be intrigued to hear your opinion. As I said, I didn’t make it through my re-watch, couldn’t muster the enthusiasm or mental fortitude to sit through it again.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ubik
    replied
    Originally posted by Jan View Post

    Get over it or fast forward. You, too, Phaze. There - all fixed. Honestly, this is one that I just don't understand people getting so completely hung up over. It's like Byron's hair. For some unknown reason huge numbers of fans seemed to think that just because the teep colony was poor they couldn't afford soap and water and basic grooming supplies. It has *nothing*, repeat *Nothing* to do with the quality of the story. Deal.

    Jan
    It's with good reason that people get hung up on this scene in particular; it's because it's just shockingly bad. I shouldn't have to fast forward a scene to make a film bearable. It IS part of the story. It's part of the narrative we've watching, and of course it has an effect on the quality of the story. Film is a visual medium, and it's the medium used to convey this particular story. We can't just expunge or gloss over a scene for the sake of convenience and good taste. Another problem is that the scene breaks my suspension of disbelief. It's not believable, and it flies in the face of all the realistic physics and scientifically sound future technology that B5 pioneered. Not to mention that space combat has suddenly become synonymous with an actress having some kind of uncrontrollable fit whilst suspended in space. I know it differed in the script, but someone should have caught this before the final cut. If not a producer, then Joe himself.

    I know full well this one is brought up too often, and I already admitted to flogging a long dead horse in my original post... but you did ask what my issues with the film were, and this is one of them. I always thought the 'Byron's hair' thing was a light hearted running joke amongst fans, not something that detracted from the quality of the season. I'd taken Byron's hair over 'kicking punching gun pod' any day of the week!

    As for the other plot points that I raised... Absolutely, they may have played out differently had Rangers gone to series. JMS is smarter than that. But here's the thing, we can infer all we like, but I can only judge Rangers as a stand alone entity, as that’s all we got. On that level, it just fails completely for me. As you say, there may have been far more to The Hand than we first suspect. Things may not be as they appear to be. All that said, it just didn’t interest me. A full series may have changed that. It's hard to say. S1 of B5 gains so much depth because of what followed. I can only judge Rangers on its merits as a one off film.

    I mean The Gathering isn’t perfect either, but it does hold my attention in ways that Rangers doesn’t. It works as a stand alone, and tells a story I care about, even gets me caring about the characters. I can’t say the same about Rangers.

    As a B5 fan, I REALLY wanted to like Rangers, but it doesn’t give me much to work with. If it was just one scene that I fervently disliked (i.e. the gun pod), I could get over it and appreciate the rest for what it is, but the film as a whole is just consistently bad. The plot doesn't engage me, the characters feel like cardboard cut outs, the cast are largely awful. Even G'Kar is reduced to a walking fortune cookie who serves no real purpose other than to provide a link back to the original B5, which this is a very pale shadow of. Sorry, I just can't get behind it in any way shape or form. It not just one specific thing, it’s the quality of the film as a whole.

    This is what bugs me - JMS is responsible for some of the best SF on TV. We know he's capable of great things, but I feel something went seriously wrong with Rangers. I'm still kinda surprised JMS hasn't acknowledged it as a misstep, or talked about the lessons learnt from it. He’s talked about Crusade in this way, admitting that he shouldn’t have been tempted to spin off B5 simply because he’d gotten comfortable with the universe and secretly feared moving on to other things.

    Actually, along those lines, does anyone have any content that relates to him discussing Rangers in any depth? Ideally a few years after the fact. Or anything around how he feels about it some years on? I just wonder how he perceives it now, with some distance and perspective. I know that before re-launching Joe’s Comics with Studio JMS/Image JMS read all the criticism he could find, especially the negative stuff around his prior output. I wonder if he’s ever done the same with his film / TV work, because a good chunk of the critcism / fan reaction around Rangers is very negative.

    Now, If he wasn't having to talk it up with the hopes of getting a new series (as quoted above), I wonder what his evaluation would be? This train of thought was the driving force behind my original post, I didn't really want to get into too much depth around my own dislike of the film. I just wondered if JMS genuinely believed, or still believed, it was 'One of the best things B5 we’ve ever done'.

    I have no doubt that he would have made something good of a series had that occurred. But, Rangers as it stands seems like a bad way to convince people to follow you there.
    Last edited by Ubik; 09-03-2014, 03:39 AM.

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