questions of canonicity

[Hipapheralkuspo]

I always wonder about how accurate are the books in Babylon 5 universe. Which are canonical and which arenÆt. I think I read somewhere that only 100% canonical books are ôTo Dream in the City of Sorrowsö and trilogy of ôThe Passing of the Techno-magesö. Can someone tell me how canonical are other books? For example RPGÆs, äBaptism of Fireô, äVisions of Peaceô, other two trilogies, äVoices, Accusationsô, etc.
Many thanks

[Jan]

The three trilogies, 'To Dream in the City of Sorrows' and 'The Shadow Within' are considered canon to a high degree. The rest are what JMS has said are canon "in the broad strokes" only. I'm pretty sure the comics are part of the canon also but I don't recall anything JMS said specifically about them.

Jan

[OmahaStar]

. Can someone tell me how canonical are other books? For example RPGÆs, äBaptism of Fireô, äVisions of Peaceô, other two trilogies, äVoices, Accusationsô, etc.
Many thanks

As Auntie Jan has already covered the other books, I'll skip them. These, however ... not canon. The RPGs are absolutely not canon. This covers everything put out by Mongoose, including the "authorized fan fiction" recently released by Claudia Christian.

[Triple F]

As Auntie Jan has already covered the other books, I'll skip them. These, however ... not canon. The RPGs are absolutely not canon.

Bit a sweeping generalisation and inevitably not quite correct.
(IÆm just about to put out a tidied up version that will allow direct page linking to B5Scrolls, but until then)

Strangely, the lack of widely available merchandise is, in a round about way, one of the reasons I started this. Namely, some fans making stuff up to æcorrectÆ what they considered errors, and due to the nature of the net, their conclusions are often quoted as facts. Very misleading, confusing and annoying to casual browsers - at least this one. Given the more ærealisticÆ approach to things on the show, did you give much thought to the likes of ships specs etc?

I think that stuff was incorporated into the B5 Card Game - as far as I know Joe looked at that stuff and signed off on it. However, have you looked through the books that were published? Security Manual and all the books that go with the role playing game. Joe would have had to have some input on those.

Concerning the lack of technical details on the ships. Well, they aren't the kind of details that we deal with in making the show. It's not important to the show, it's important to some of the fans...but that is something else again. What you have to realize is that in the case of Trek or even Star Wars - which have legions of books on this stuff - it was all figured out after the fact and not by the folks who made the show. If folks are looking for that kind of info then the books that support the role playing game would be the place to look - someone sat down and figured it all out.


IÆm embarrassed to say I now know forums where you would not only get laughed at for saying that, but then receive a very detailed explanation on why it happened. Your saying what I more or less thought. But my personal opinions are (hopefully) obvious û and therefore carry no weight. So I was looking for confirmation as it were.

That's why I said what I did - fans want to know all sorts of stuff about the world of B5 that we just didn't get into during the making the series. Now the novels and the short-lived comic were also part of fleshing out the world of B5 and were canon to the series - both publications related to stuff that was going on, but from different perspectives than we could have presented on the show. I don't think anyone has done much in really showing how inter-related this stuff all was. I know Joe talked about it quite a lot on the web and at conventions, but I'm not sure that anyone fully ever got it. Both the Security Manual and Creating Babylon 5 directly involved many of us working on the show. Also Jane Killick's Season by Season books had most of us contributing information to them.

Not close to being comprehensive but hopefully helps a bit. The RPG game being talked about is the one from Agents of Gaming (AOG), they had the licence before Mongoose publications.
(itÆs from the John Copeland interview)

[JoeD80]

I'm pretty sure the comics are part of the canon also but I don't recall anything JMS said specifically about them.

Certainly issue #1 of the comic is canon since jms wrote it himself.

#2 - #4, jms never said much of anything about, and although he did write the story for it, I notice there is no story credit for him listed in those issues.

On #5 - #8 he said:

Issues [5]-[8] of the B5 comic from DC will focus on how Sinclair and
Garibaldi met and formed their friendship.

(This is based on a premise from me, so it's canon.)

and his story credit is intact on those issues.

#9 & #10 were written by David Gerrold from a planned David Gerrold episode that I've seen jms say wasn't done because the budget wouldn't have covered it, and I've also seen jms say that it didn't work for the show.

#11 is a Psi Corps propaganda booklet, so it's canon as far as you can trust Psi Corps

The In Valen's Name comic is canon, with the first issue being written by jms and Peter David writing the rest based on jms' outline (which is in one of the script books).

The chronology that was published in the B5 Magazine and in the first part of the Chronology book includes issues #1 - #8, and the In Valen's Name comic.

Also, the planned four-issue arc about Marcus that would have started at #12 before jms ran into creative control issues was incorporated into the Kathryn Drennan novel.

[OmahaStar]

Originally Posted by OmahaStar
As Auntie Jan has already covered the other books, I'll skip them. These, however ... not canon. The RPGs are absolutely not canon.

Bit a sweeping generalization and absolutely correct.

Fixed for ya. You're welcome.

[Triple F]

As funny as always.

[glindros]

Isn't canon whatever jms say it is? Seems pretty simple to me.

[Ranger 6 and 7/8]

Isn't canon whatever jms say it is? Seems pretty simple to me.

well, from our viewpoint as fans of JMS' vision, yes. However, WB sill has the reigns of trademark, so....

Anyhoo, it would be nice to see some fresh work in the B5 universe. Be nice if WB would reward our loyalty by ramping up a reprint of the trilogies or even some fresh stories. I know JMS is too busy to commission the book himself, but surely he could, like in the trilogies, give a highlight of what it should encompass and let some talented writers jump in with his review of their finished products.

[raw_bean]

Isn't canon whatever jms say it is? Seems pretty simple to me.

That only helps if you already know what JMS has said is canon. Believe it or not, some people might not know yet. People other than me, that is.

[DGTWoodward]

Some things considered CANON because JMS said so...

Sinclair was always going to be Valen...erm, no.
Babylon 4 was always going to go into the past...erm, no.
Valen was always described as a 'Minbair-not-born-of-Minbari'...erm, no.
There were always THREE Minbari castes....erm, no.

As the earlier poster said, 'canon' is whatever JMS says at the time.

[JoeD80]

Sinclair was always going to be Valen...erm, no.
Babylon 4 was always going to go into the past...erm, no.
Valen was always described as a 'Minbair-not-born-of-Minbari'...erm, no.
There were always THREE Minbari castes....erm, no.

As the earlier poster said, 'canon' is whatever JMS says at the time.

There was always Babylon 5....erm, no. Not before 1987 there wasn't. Sure none of those things were true at the beginning. The story evolved over time. What jms said was:

"If it airs, it's canon."

and, there has never been anything he's said is *not* canon with the sole exception of the Mongoose fiction books that were never published - what he's said is that many things are canon in broad strokes and that the details slip sometimes.

[raw_bean]

Even things that air can be trumped, as with the previously mentioned 'two Minbari castes' thing, plus the appearance of Anna Sheridan, and where the asteroid field was that Sheridan took out the Black Star.

[FuryPilot]

AoG's Babylon 5 Wars

My Babylon 5 Wars tabletop book come with a forward from the Great Maker called "Getting It Right".

In it JMS tells about how not only were other licensees referred to the AoG books for ship details, but production staff also used the books to answer questions when he was not available.

Here is his summary:

What I'm saying, in this roundabout way, is that if you want the Real Deal, if you want accuracy, canonical authority, and the best of the best when it comes to BABYLON 5 licensing and gaming...you've come to the right place.

FP

[JoeD80]

Even things that air can be trumped, as with the previously mentioned 'two Minbari castes' thing

The thing about this one is it was worked into the story -- Delenn brings it up in season 4 -- "oh you forgot about the worker caste didn't you!"

plus the appearance of Anna Sheridan

I'm not sure what this refers to. The person playing Anna? I'm not sure this really counts as canonicity changing since the story of the character is the same.

and where the asteroid field was that Sheridan took out the Black Star.

No one mentions where the asteroid field is located in the movie "In the Beginning" -- we only ever heard about one location so nothing was contradicted; even the Lurker's Guide says the location could be the same with "Of course, it's possible [the Minbari] were making occasional forays deeper into Earth space as well, possibly to force Earth to spread its defenses thin."